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Author Topic: Spirit  (Read 3535 times)

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EKnight

  • Guest
Spirit
« on: June 06, 2008, 04:01:04 PM »

There is the spirit that gives life to the soul, the spirit of wisdom, the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are spirit, Ray has said that God and Jesus have the SAME spirit.  Are these all the same spirit or different spirits?

Also, could someone explain to me if Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins why then must we still be chastised or purged of our sins in the Lake of Fire?  And, did Jesus die for the sins of those who preceded his coming, ie Moses, Noah, Abraham, David and all those who lived B.C.?

I'm sure the answers are here on the forum but sometimes I read things and then forget....it's been a lifelong problem for me.

Eileen

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Stevernator

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 05:14:24 PM »

Hi Eileen,

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

Ephes 4:5-6
5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

2 Cor 6:14-16
For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."[

Heb 11:39-40
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


Do these verses help? Yes Jesus died for the sins of the world, but God is holy and light doesn't have fellowship with darkness. That's why we must become pure and holy. Yes, Jesus died for the sins all humanity including those in the OT.

For your first question here would be a good place to check:
Who and what is Jesus & Who is His Father?... Nashville Conference 2007

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Steve
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 06:58:40 PM »


Hi Eileen,

Quote
There is the spirit that gives life to the soul, the spirit of wisdom, the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are spirit, Ray has said that God and Jesus have the SAME spirit.  Are these all the same spirit or different spirits?

Here is an section of the Trinity paper and below are some emails, I hope it helps with your questions.

http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html ----------------------

If we look for phrases such as "the holy spirit" being representative of some kind of personal being of a multi-person Godhead, we can find a plethora of "gods."   Let’s count them:

God

The Father

The Highest

The Holy Ghost

The Holy Spirit

The Spirit of God

The Spirit of Christ

Jesus Christ

The Son of God. We are now up to a TRIPLE trinity.

The Mediator

The Mind of God

The Spirit of truth. Now we have a quartet of trinities

The Word was God

And to these we could add "The SEVEN Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5), etc., etc.

We are now up to twenty potential coequal candidates for this so-called triune godhead. Clearly, God is NOT a trinity or a collection of trinities. By the way, "Godhead" is not a proper translation of any Greek word, it should be translated "Deity" or "Divinity."

No matter how many different spirits there are, one thing is certain: ALL SPIRITS ARE IN SUBJECTION TO THE FATHER--NONE ARE EQUAL TO OR WITH THE FATHER, because we have Scriptural proof that God is superior to all spirits, seeing that:

"Yet shall we not much rather be subjected to the FATHER OF SPIRITS..." (Heb. 12:9)

To him who has an ear to hear; let him hear!

No, there are NOT twenty members of a coequal godhead. Not ten or even five. There are not even three or two.

"...there is ONE God, the FATHER..." (I Cor. 8:6)

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4176.0.html ----------

        Dear Dwight:

        ALL men (and animals) have a spirit. This spirit gives life to the body and produces soul (feelings, thinking, emotions, etc.). But God dwells in our hearts and minds by way of His HOLY Spirit, which is a different spirit.

        God be with you,
        Ray


Quote
Also, could someone explain to me if Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins why then must we still be chastised or purged of our sins in the Lake of Fire?  And, did Jesus die for the sins of those who preceded his coming, ie Moses, Noah, Abraham, David and all those who lived B.C.?

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3684.0.html ----------

Dear Reader:

    It is in JUDGMENT that most of humanity will be saved. It is one of the damnablle heresies of the Chruch that teaches there is salvation in this life only. Read the rest of my "Lake of Fire" series for the details.

    God be with you,
    Ray

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4040.0.html --------

Dear Keith:

        I teach STRONGLY throughout ALL MY PAPERS, spiritual baptism, spiritual circumcision, spiritual communion, spiritual repentance, etc.  Where have I ever ever suggested or even hinted that ANYONE will be "saved REGARDLESS?"  That is nonsense. I have not even ever thought such an absurd thing. I have taught and STATED hundred and hundreds of times in my writing and emails that unless and until one truly repents and lives a godly life through God's Holy Spirit, they will NEVER BE SAVED.  But the truth is, God shows many many places in His Word that He will bring all to repentance, and He will teach them godly living, etc. That is the WHOLE PURPOSE FOR THE JUDGMENT (Isa. 26:9).

        God be with you,
        Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1733.0.html -------

Dear Craig:

Yes, of course, what we have learned in this life will be carried over to the next. If not, what would even be the purpose for living a human life in the first place?  It is the preparation and regeneration and conversion and being begotten anew from above through the Holy Spirit of God that is the prerequisite to entering the Kingdom of God. "Study to show yourself approved ['qualified'] unto God...." (II Time. 2:15).

God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,839.0.html ----------

What did any of the ancient patriarchs know of "saving grace?"  Answer:  Nothing!  And why is that? Because: "For the LAW was given by Moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH came by Jesus Christ"  (John 1:18).  Grace did not come before Christ, hence: No one was saved before Christ.  "These ALL died in faith [how many? 'ALL.'] in faith [did they all have faith? Yes.  Are we 'saved by faith?'  NO--'By  GRACE ye are saved....' Eph. 2:8.  Did they nonetheless receive the promise of immortal life?  NO....] NOT having received the promises..." (Heb. 11:13).

Could not the Patriarchs receive salvation through the faith that they had BEFORE Jesus came to die for their sins?  NO.  No Patriarch will be saved except through God's chosen elect: "And these ALL [how many? 'ALL'] having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT THE PROMISES: God having provided some better thing for US, that THEY without US should NOT be made perfect [Gk: 'complete.']"  (Heb. 11:13 & 39-40).

Well then, if their faith and good report did not and cannot make them 'complete,' pray what can make them 'complete?'  Answer:  "And ye ['ye' believers in Jesus, not those who knew not Jesus and did not have Jesus live in them, and who were not 'crucified with Christ,' etc., etc., etc.]...and ye are COMPLETE [how?] IN  H-I-M  [JESUS]"  (Col. 2:10), etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes, Dave, it is also good to have a 'teacher' to help you understand the things that you miss by studying on your own.

God be with you,
Ray


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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2008, 11:01:48 AM »

Dear Eileen

Just my opinion.

I believe there is a difference between the breath/spirit from God and the Spirit of God. The breath/spirit gives life to the carnal which is possessed by all living creatures, beasts and crawling things of the earth, fish of the rivers and seas, birds of the air and, yes, humans. All the same breath which returns to the Father at death. "...before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it." (Eccl.12:6,7).
This breath/spirit is the carnal which is enmity toward God, darkness.

Quite distinct from the breath/spirit is the Spirit of the Father which is Light giving Life bestowed as a gift on them who believe in God. "Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever?" (2Cor.6:14,15).   

Therefore in all references to this particular Spirit I always use S as against s and H as against h. Whether Holy Spirit, He or Him it matters not, it is a reference to God who demands honour, respect, obedience, humility and reverence.



God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2008, 05:11:02 PM »

Quote
This breath/spirit is the carnal which is enmity toward God, darkness

That doesn't quite ring true, but I can't come up with a reason why.

Do we inherit our carnal nature though the breath/spirit?
Did Jesus have this same breath/spirit that gave his physical body life?

Romans 7
 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
      So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.


Is this sinful nature contained in our spirit? If the carnal is being put to death in his chosen elect then the breath/spirit still remains that gives our phyisical bodies life. The breath/spirit itself would not be carnal.
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EKnight

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 01:11:29 AM »

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

So which spirit is willing?  And the flesh=carnal mind?
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Mbongiseni

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 09:01:55 AM »

Hi
About yuor Also, could someone explain to me if Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins why then must we still be chastised or purged of our sins in the Lake of Fire?I would like to refer you to the what I recently read through "Was Christ Made Sin" paper
Sorry i couldn't put a hyperlink here but i m sure you will find it.
Mbongiseni
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 09:16:07 AM »

Dear Eileen

The way I see it, and it's just my opinion.

We first receive, along with all other living creatures, the same breath/spirit from the Father. It is a weak spirit that is susceptible to deception and corruption. On death this spirit returns to the Father and the flesh which is just the temporary shelter called the tent by Paul returns to the earth from which it was taken. "...before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it." (Eccl.12:6,7).

Though Mary was impregnated by the Father, I believe that He was also given the weak breath/spirit which gave Him mortal life in a human tent so He could face temptation and overcome. "And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’ ” Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and *said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will command His angels concerning You’; and ‘On their hands they will bear You up, So that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.’ ” Jesus said to him, “On the other hand, it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ” Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’ ” Then the devil *left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him." (Matt.4:3-11).

Just like us, Jesus only received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John. The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! “ This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ “I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” John testified saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the  Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ (Jn.1:29-33).

When we receive the Holy Spirit our weak breath/spirit experiences an inner war between two powerful forces, the pull of the flesh to the lusts of the world which is enmity toward God "Ye adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore would be a friend of the world maketh himself an enemy of God." (Jas.4:4), and the pull of the Holy Spirit towards God. “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, (2Cor.10:3-5).

The Holy Spirit is a gift from God granted only to all who believe and He will lead us to immortality if we overcome all the temptations and trials "But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory" (1Cor.15:54), but if we renege He will be taken away and we will end up worse than the unbeliever. "For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.” (2Pet.2:18-22).

That's the only way I can explain it.


 
God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 12:35:21 PM »


Hi Roy UK,

I just want to bring these Scriptures up for your consideration, as to what you have posted.

Quote
Though Mary was impregnated by the Father, I believe that He was also given the weak breath/spirit which gave Him mortal life in a human tent so He could face temptation and overcome.

Jesus was actually conceived by the Holy Spirit, which makes Him quite different right from His conception.

Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

He was in our "likeness."  I believe this likeness gave Him the physical experience along with the pain and suffering, but not the carnal mind.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
v. 9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

If the "flesh" as in being carnal can not please God, surely Jesus had the Spirit all along.  Because the Father said at the baptism of Christ that He was "well pleased" with Jesus, which means how He already had lived.

Mat 3:17  And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus was "full of grace" (divine influence on the heart) even as a child.

Luke 2:40  And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him.

John 1:14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Quote
Just like us, Jesus only received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John.

Baptism is but an outward show.  Jesus was baptized by John as a shadow or as a picture for His followers as to what they would have to do spiritually, be baptized into Him.

Rom 6:3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 3:26  For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
v. 27  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
v. 28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Being a physical human being He was exposed to all the things that we are.  But His mind was different, in that when He was "tempted" or enticement by any kind of sin, He never even thought to comment it.  Therefore He was "without sin."

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I hope this was helpful  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat


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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 12:47:32 PM »


Hi Roy UK,

I just want to bring these Scriptures up for your consideration, as to what you have posted.

Quote
Though Mary was impregnated by the Father, I believe that He was also given the weak breath/spirit which gave Him mortal life in a human tent so He could face temptation and overcome.

Jesus was actually conceived by the Holy Spirit, which makes Him quite different right from His conception.

Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

He was in our "likeness."  I believe this likeness gave Him the physical experience along with the pain and suffering, but not the carnal mind.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
v. 9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

If the "flesh" as in being carnal can not please God, surely Jesus had the Spirit all along.  Because the Father said at the baptism of Christ that He was "well pleased" with Jesus, which means how He already had lived.

Mat 3:17  And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus was "full of grace" (divine influence on the heart) even as a child.

Luke 2:40  And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him.

John 1:14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Quote
Just like us, Jesus only received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John.

Baptism is but an outward show.  Jesus was baptized by John as a shadow or as a picture for His followers as to what they would have to do spiritually, be baptized into Him.

Rom 6:3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 3:26  For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
v. 27  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
v. 28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Being a physical human being He was exposed to all the things that we are.  But His mind was different, in that when He was "tempted" or enticement by any kind of sin, He never even thought to comment it.  Therefore He was "without sin."

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I hope this was helpful  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat




Excellent points Kat, especially the one about his 'likeness'. His likeness was only outwardly (2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 arms, etc) like us but inside he was not conformed to this world as we are when we are first born in the physical/flesh. Thanks again


Marques
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Robin

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 11:34:42 PM »

Hi Mbongiseni

Ray has a lot to say about your question here

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

If you scroll down you'll see the topic heading
NOT YET IN THE IMAGE OF GOD
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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 04:45:16 PM »


Hi Roy UK,

I just want to bring these Scriptures up for your consideration, as to what you have posted.

Quote
Though Mary was impregnated by the Father, I believe that He was also given the weak breath/spirit which gave Him mortal life in a human tent so He could face temptation and overcome.

Jesus was actually conceived by the Holy Spirit, which makes Him quite different right from His conception.

Mat 1:20  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

He was in our "likeness."  I believe this likeness gave Him the physical experience along with the pain and suffering, but not the carnal mind.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
v. 9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

If the "flesh" as in being carnal can not please God, surely Jesus had the Spirit all along.  Because the Father said at the baptism of Christ that He was "well pleased" with Jesus, which means how He already had lived.

Mat 3:17  And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus was "full of grace" (divine influence on the heart) even as a child.

Luke 2:40  And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon Him.

John 1:14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Quote
Just like us, Jesus only received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John.

Baptism is but an outward show.  Jesus was baptized by John as a shadow or as a picture for His followers as to what they would have to do spiritually, be baptized into Him.

Rom 6:3  Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
v. 4  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Gal 3:26  For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
v. 27  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
v. 28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Being a physical human being He was exposed to all the things that we are.  But His mind was different, in that when He was "tempted" or enticement by any kind of sin, He never even thought to comment it.  Therefore He was "without sin."

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I hope this was helpful  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat




Hi! Kath

I accept all that you have quoted, I did concede in my posting that I was aware that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. But my point was that He also possessed the weak spirit/mind/will of the Father's breath though He did have the advantage over us with having His Father's Spirit to direct Him and not allow Him to sin. Ray touches on this subject briefly in his "Lake of Fire" series chapter 16 (b) under "Jesus Christ Did Not Posses Free Will".

What confuses me is how Jesus can have a physical/mortal life in His body without the weaker breath/spirit/mind of God, which is something all living creatures have to have and which the Holy Spirit does not supply? It is the breath/spirit of God that gives mortal life to all living creatures  "I said to myself concerning the sons of men, “God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts. For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity." (Eccl.3:18,19), and with God there is no partiality.

This is just what is coming to me, if it's wrong please put me right.


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 11:57:46 PM »



Hi Roy UK,

I think your first statement is true, But my point was that He also possessed the weak spirit/mind/will of the Father's breath though He did have the advantage over us with having His Father's Spirit to direct Him and not allow Him to sin.

I think the Scripture you quoted says it, "As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath."  It is that "breath," as you say of the weak spirit that gives everybody physical life.  So Jesus Christ had the spirit that came with the breath on life. 

But Jesus Christ had the advantage of the Holy Spirit from the beginning too, He had both spirits.  In Luke it says He grew strong in spirit.

Luke 2:40  And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

This doesn't sound like it's speaking of the breath of life that "became strong," it was the Holy Spirit.
When we receive the Holy Spirit it bears witness with our spirit, two separate and different spirits.

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

So even thought these spirits all come from God, they are different. 
I hope these Scriptures can help us come to an understanding on this  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 08:36:54 AM »



Hi Roy UK,

I think your first statement is true, But my point was that He also possessed the weak spirit/mind/will of the Father's breath though He did have the advantage over us with having His Father's Spirit to direct Him and not allow Him to sin.

I think the Scripture you quoted says it, "As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath."  It is that "breath," as you say of the weak spirit that gives everybody physical life.  So Jesus Christ had the spirit that came with the breath on life. 

But Jesus Christ had the advantage of the Holy Spirit from the beginning too, He had both spirits.  In Luke it says He grew strong in spirit.

Luke 2:40  And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.

This doesn't sound like it's speaking of the breath of life that "became strong," it was the Holy Spirit.
When we receive the Holy Spirit it bears witness with our spirit, two separate and different spirits.

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

So even thought these spirits all come from God, they are different. 
I hope these Scriptures can help us come to an understanding on this  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat



Hi! Kath

Yes, I see it now. I conceded that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit in my posting to Eileen. So Jesus had both spirits from the very beginning because it was the Holy Spirit that grew and carried Him through the temptation which is evident in the statements: , “On the other hand, it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’ ......“Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’ ” (Matt.4:7,10). It was God that Satin was trying to tempt.

Where I was totally wrong was in my statement that He received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John because He permitted it “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” (Matt.4:15) as proof to John and those around that He was Who John declared Him to be with the visual sign - the dove - and the voice from the heavens - “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.” (Matt.4:17).

Thanks Kath, I will contact Eileen and explain my blunder.


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     



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Roy Monis

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 10:10:10 AM »

There is the spirit that gives life to the soul, the spirit of wisdom, the Holy Spirit, Jesus' words are spirit, Ray has said that God and Jesus have the SAME spirit.  Are these all the same spirit or different spirits?

Also, could someone explain to me if Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins why then must we still be chastised or purged of our sins in the Lake of Fire?  And, did Jesus die for the sins of those who preceded his coming, ie Moses, Noah, Abraham, David and all those who lived B.C.?

I'm sure the answers are here on the forum but sometimes I read things and then forget....it's been a lifelong problem for me.

Eileen



Dear Eileen

As you will have seen from the postings there has been an error in one of my statements in which I said that Jesus received the Holy Spirit when He was baptized by John. I wish to correct this error because you will see that in the beginning I conceded that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, so it should have been obvious to me that He had both the weak/carnal/spirit and the Holy Spirit from the very beginning. I apologize for my misleading post.

Your original question was "Are these different spirits or are they the same spirit?" The answer "They are different spirits." from the same source, the Father. One is the weak breath/spirit/mind which all physical/carnal/mortal creatures are given in order to have life and the other is the Holy Spirit which is a gift from God to all who believe in His Son, and it is the LIFE that leads to immortality for them that overcome.. But there is a big....big difference between them.

Sorry about the misleading bit, other than that you have not been deceived.


God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK 
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EKnight

  • Guest
Re: Spirit
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 12:34:06 PM »

Ha Ha.  Okay Roy and Kat, I have a better understanding but something tells me, with my retention skills, I will likely forget what I have learned.  I will no doubt have to read this all again soon. All this reading can get confusing and overwhelming.

Eileen
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