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following resurrection ?
Phil3:10:
Jerreye and Kat,
I agree that once this physical body dies it is dead until the resurrection. The elect/chosen will be with CHRIST and I feel they will become spiritual. The purging and cleansing in the Lake of Fire will bring all to repentance and true belief. This is so difficult to obtain in our present sin ridden physical state and I feel this is GOD'S plan. Nothing in the flesh is good and only a very few will rule with CHRIST during HIS 1000 years reign. This life is what comes after the flesh, the spiritual body and the physical is dead forever.
However, I am not sure those in the Great White Throne Judgement will be in the flesh. I looked carefully at the verses you mentioned and especially Romans 8:11 which I feels refers to the elect/very elect and not necessarily the called or the many called and not chosen or the rest of sinful humanity.Those still alive when CHRIST returns will be changed in a moment if they are HIS elect/very elect. When humanity is raised from the dead I ask if GOD will be dealing with a fleshly creature or a spiritual one. Judgement is good for all, but do you believe this judgement will occur with mankind in a physical/fleshly state of being. I think these physical bodies are too corrupt for GOD to even want to deal with again and I do think this is HIS plan.
Again, this is my belief and there is so much that I do not know.
Phil3:10
jerreye:
Hi Kat, Falcon, Phil,
I do respect all of you guys and believe that we all are entitled to our opinions. However, I just have a hard time imagining God resurrecting men back to physical bodies. If He does, then is this resurrected flesh "immortal flesh"? Can it be hurt? If it CAN be hurt, then it MUST be subject to death, as PAIN in itself is a signal of impending death! This is the very function of pain. It warns of potential loss and alerts us to FIX the problem, before death occurs. Having said that, I don't think God would make these physical bodies subject to physical pain, just for "pains sake"...ya know what I mean? Another issue with this is that if these physical bodies can die, then upon death, they would have to be resurrected AGAIN, then maybe even again and again, would they not?! Do you see the problems with this? (If God resurrects all people to immortal spiritual bodies (all varying in glory and splendor as Paul describes), then all of these questions would disappear.)
These are just a few examples why I just have a real hard time believing that these people will be resurrected to physical life. Just because they may be resurrected to spiritual life, does not mean that they will be "holy spirit minded". After all, look at Satan! He is a spirit and he is as carnal as the day is long! However, I absolutely could be wrong in my opinions. Perhaps my mind will be shifted in the near future....I don't know. I will certainly leave room for that possibility :)
Whatever God will do, He will do it in love and He will ALWAYS show mercy in judgment. This is the main thing!
Kat:
Hi Jeremy,
Indeed this is my view, but looking at the Scriptures there are certain things that I see.
--- Quote ---If He does, then is this resurrected flesh "immortal flesh"? Can it be hurt?
--- End quote ---
Mankind only has to go through a physical death "once." So...
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
When Christ returns to rule this earth it will be a vastly different world than we know now. And the way it looks to me, Christ will not allow people to harm one another anymore.
Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
v. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
v. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain (toil, that is, (by implication) anguish: - pain), for the former things have passed away."
v. 5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
The earth may look pretty much the same, but the nature of things will be changed.
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
v. 5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
v. 6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
v. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
v. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den.
v. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
Isa 35:1 The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them,
And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
v. 2 It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice,
Even with joy and singing.
The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it,
The excellence of Carmel and Sharon.
They shall see the glory of the LORD,
The excellency of our God.
v. 3 Strengthen the weak hands,
And make firm the feeble knees.
v. 4 Say to those who are fearful-hearted,
"Be strong, do not fear!
Behold, your God will come with vengeance,
With the recompense of God;
He will come and save you."
v. 5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
v. 6 Then the lame shall leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the dumb sing.
For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness,
And streams in the desert.
v. 7 The parched ground shall become a pool,
And the thirsty land springs of water;
In the habitation of jackals, where each lay,
There shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
v. 8 A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray.
v. 9 No lion shall be there,
Nor shall any ravenous beast go up on it;
It shall not be found there.
But the redeemed shall walk there,
v. 10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return,
And come to Zion with singing,
With everlasting joy on their heads.
They shall obtain joy and gladness,
And sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
As you can see from these Scriptures there is some incredible changes that will take place on this earth when Christ returns. I know that all of these things have spiritual meaning, but the Scriptures also have a physical/literal implication as well.
Just some food for thought :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
jerreye:
Hi Kat,
Do these things not happen AFTER the LOF/1000Year reign? Christ says that there shall be indeed be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" when He returns in His kingdom (for those who are outside the city). Then at the END of the thousand years, there is a massive war (so therefore the "former thing have passed away" prophecy can't really be fully fulfilled until the 1000 years come to its full end). So, it seems that the "no pain" and the "no more tears" etc, happen AFTER the reign of the coming ages and not during.
However, perhaps all of these things (new heavens and new earth/no pain etc) are finally realized on an individual level to those who walk out of the LOF during this time period? Now THAT would make sense to me!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Kat:
I agree, the Elect are now in this present age going through judgment, because the kingdom of God is at hand for the few NOW.
1Peter 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Hi Jeremy,
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
v. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
This is the beginning of the new age when Christ shall reign on earth, the bride is the Elect - new Jerusalem. The same event is in Rev. 19.
Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
Of course this is Jesus Christ, He is coming to judge and rule/make war with the nations on earth.
Rev 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
This is the Elect, they meet Christ in the air (1 Thes. 4:17), then they return to earth with Him.
Rev 19:15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Now He begins ruling and judging the nations. This is not a physical war where there is literal fighting, it is a spiritual war against the beast. So the end of the chapter is judgment and speaks of His destroying the carnal nature of those on earth in the Lake of fire, it will be on earth. This is "what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God" (1 Peter 4:17).
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
v. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
v. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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