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called and chosen
Laren:
Romans 9 seems clear to me that of the Jews, they were given the law, they knew a form of truth, yet most stumbled over the stone (Christ) and their hearts were hardened and cut off. Other than a remnant chosen of the jews, the rest were hardened. This was part of God's plan so that the gospel then would go to the Gentiles and we could be grafted in, but must be by faith. The process of fullness of Gentiles is what apppears to me where we are in this age. When this fullness is complete, then God will institute the plan to save or graft back in the hardened jews.
Rom 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to {God's} gracious choice.
Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; (these verses correlate well with those of Romans 1-3 too)
Rom 11:8 just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
Rom 11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation {has come} to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Now here is my question, the many called in context appears to be the jews (except the remnant chosen), so God hardened their hearts, and opened the gospel to the Gentiles. The fullness of Gentiles is now what is going on.
Where are we told that of the Gentiles, many are called and few chosen?? It doesn't seem that these verses in context are referring to Gentiles re: many called and few chosen? Now I know we have to be careful with context, but would appreciate any others thots here on "many called few chosen" for the Gentiles.
One thing that struck me is the following verses, that definitely indicate of the Gentiles, their heart can be hardened too, and be cut off. It just doesn't give us a number of how many will be cut off (of the gentiles)
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural {branches} be grafted into their own olive tree?
thanks
ertsky:
who is a jew Laren ?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
outwardly ? inwardly ?
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
parable
i find focus in the following
sea = all humanity (and out of the sea comes the)
earth = called (christians not yet chosen and faithful so to speak, out of which comes the)
heavens = chosen (must stay under and let Christ endure in them as faithful)
this way it is evident that called or chosen has a far larger meaning than natural israel, what about the israel of God.
jews only ? no way
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
jew and gentile
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
f
Lightseeker:
Laren,
The fullness of the Gentiles is no more about 'a number of Gentiles', in this age, than it was about 'a number of Jews' in the last age. FULLNESS deals with a quality of maturity and not a quantity of numbers in individuals. God is now awaiting the "fullness of this age" that comes with maturity unto "the FULLNESS of the stature of the image of Christ", spoken of in Eph 4.
The verse you mention in Matt 20:16 concerning "Many are called but few are chosen" has an interesting twist to it. The Greek word for called in this verse is Kletos and it is defined as 'the appointed, or (specifically) a saint'.
eg. "many 'ARE saints' but few are 'chosen'".
When I was drafted in '72'...many were 'soldiers' but few were 'green berets'. Uncle Sam called us to be soldiers, but to be of the elite chosen...or Green Beret was up to us. It wasn't a 'draft (from without) issue'...it was a 'desire (from within) issue'.
To be a 'called out one...or, saint', is up to God but to "cleanse ourselves from our dead works", and avail ourselves willingly to His good works to become chosen is up to us. That, is what makes us an honorable vessel, as opposed to just being a common vessel in the house of God. (2Tim 2:20-21)
ertsky:
Hey Lightseeker
--- Quote ---It wasn't a 'draft (from without) issue'...it was a 'desire (from within) issue'.
--- End quote ---
but the scripture says
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
and
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
also you say
--- Quote ---but to "cleanse ourselves from our dead works", and avail ourselves willingly to His good works to become chosen is up to us.
--- End quote ---
it's just plain unscriptural misleading false and damaging to anyone taken in by it Lightseeker
wont you repent of this error ? Christ plainly declares
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
f
ertsky:
and so it would seem we have here
a post suggesting chosen and called has something to do with natural israel.
and a post suggesting we choose ourselves of our own will.
both of these positions are heresy and potentially a disaster to the unwary.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Mat 22:8 Then he said to his servants, "'The wedding banquet is ready, but those who were invited {these are the called} were unworthy of it.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel {these are the chosen} them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
f
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