Why Must It Be This Way?

[hillsbororiver]

The following is a portion from the Nashville Conference 2007 (Thanks for the transcript Kathy).

WHO AND WHAT IS JESUS?

Read the entire paper here;

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Or listen to the audio here: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nashville07_7B.mp3


So this is the best that God can do, but it's not pretty and it's not fancy and it's not always happy.  It's painful  and sad and much of our lives are misery, you know, laughing on the outside and crying on the inside.  It's not always happy happy happy, but it's necessary.  Is it right, that God should put us through something like that?
We have no say about it, we didn't ask to be born and we didn't ask to get lung cancer or whatever.  We didn't ask for this, God puts us through it.  Is it fair for Him to do that?  Why is it fair?  Well there is something good in store.  But is it necessary that we would have to go through all of this bad first?  It's true, you have to have the contrast.  But sometimes I just say, Lord I think I'm at the place now, Lord I think I'm there.  You can take away the bad and see if I'm not thankful. 

He sent Jesus Christ to go through the same stuff we go through and that's why I wanted to bring these out today.  Because most of you never knew that.  Jesus Christ lived a pretty painful life.  Paul lived a pretty painful life, he said I learned to be content in all things.  God put His Son through what we have to go through, because He loves us!  He didn't have to.

Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth.  He did something to acquire God's glory, something.  Because He had it and He didn't get it for nothing.
 
God wants creatures, He wants children, He wants sons and daughters.  He has a desire to have something like Himself.  But for us to be like Him, we have to go through some pretty tough stuff.  So He sent His Son as an example, as how you can go through it and never get angry or upset with God.  And to never turn against your fellowman, because of what you have to go through.  He lived a perfect life, of the perfect man, sick and diseased, in pain and He lived it perfectly.  But God was living in Him, the Father was going through it just as much as He was, you see. 

Christ had to die, it said He had to die for our sins.  That's true, that's the scripture, Christ died for our sin.  But then we have a scripture here that doesn't mention sin.

John 3:16  "For God so(thus) loved the world,"

Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it's saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying.  What this is saying is God loved us, in this way.  This is the manner and way in which He loved us.  In this way He loved the world.

"...that He gave His only begotten Son,"

Ok, He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.

"...that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

Of course the Bible is written so man does not understand it.  That's why some of these things are put in there, "that who-so-ever believes."  God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe.  So the 'who-so-ever' is going to be everybody, ok. 

But He gave His Son, now here's the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die?  Why?  Why did the Father sacrifice His Son?  Why did He have to do that?  HE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT!  He didn't have to do anything, HE'S GOD!  Why did He?
 
Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure.  That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US!  He did not have to die.  He said, I will do it to show them.  How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value?  What can I do? 

I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life.  I have all that to give, but they will say,  you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have.  What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you?  And God said, I will DIE!
 
But God can't die, He's eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness.  If you have immortality you can't die.
 
So He made a Son.  He made Him great.  And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son.  Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
 
Then they will know We love them.
 
Then they will know.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Akira329]

I'm glad I was there to hear that from Ray, I almost cried
Thanks for the remembrance Joe

[Patrick]

I'm glad I was there to hear that from Ray, I almost cried
Thanks for the remembrance Joe

There were several men, me included, that had tears in their eyes.

[EKnight]

Wow, that is really powerfully put.

Eileen

[pylady]

Hi Joe,

It was wonderful to read this again.  What an amazing loving Father we have!  When we compare this with Christendom's teaching of such a cruel sadistic god we can see  how great theirblasphemy is.  How ashamed they will be when the veil is lifted from their minds and they can see their own blasphemy!  That certainly will be torture to them.

And thanks to our Father for Ray Smith to whom He has given a special gift of revealing to us the glory of God.

This time as I read this part of "Who and What Is Jesus"  something new caught my attention.

I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life.  I have all that to give, but they will say,  you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have.  What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you?  And God said, I will DIE!
 
But God can't die, He's eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness.  If you have immortality you can't die.
 
So He made a Son.  He made Him great.  And to show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son.  Ok, Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
 
Then they will know We love them. 

This of course shows God's amazing love.  But it also says to me that we were in the Father's plan from the very beginning, when He first decided to created a family.  Am I understanding this correctly.  We were in God's plan even before He created His Son?  All, everyone of mankind in His Divine Plan right fromthe very beginning?  I guess I always thought the Father created the Son first, and later decided to create us.  To me this is a subtle, but an amazing difference.  Because it speaks to me of the Father creating and being involved with creating His Family in an intimate way.  And it gives a deeper meaning to Christ being called the first of many brothers.  We are all in this together, the Father Who's Purpose it is, Jesus, Who leads the way, showing us how to live, how to die, and the reward that makes it all worthwhile - being in God's Family, heirs to His Glory, and each one of us on our individual paths to being made in His image. 

Wonderful thoughts before I go to sleep.

Your sister in Christ,

            Cindy 

[Pini56]

Hello Joe,

Well, that says it all. Here is something, also, to meditate on.

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10  Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12  Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. Isaiah Chapter 53.

With Love. Geoff.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Cindy,

Your perception is absolutely on the money, that is exactly right. We see that our Father had this plan for creating Sons and Daughters before even Jesus was created!

I remember when I was at the Conference and when this sunk in the tears began to well up and when I discreetly attempted to dry my eyes I turned to my left and I saw Harry next to me with tears streaming down his face as well.

This other part also sent me reeling once its full implication sunk in;

"Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth.  He did something to acquire God's glory, something.  Because He had it and He didn't get it for nothing."

Now that is also an incredible thing to meditate on, what did Christ go through to obtain the glory He shared with our Father even before He walked this earth? I had the perception that Christ was created as a perfect Son right from His very beginning and at times even had the thought that all this glory and power was just given to Him as to make everything quite a bit easier for Him to carry the burdon He eventually was charged with, but we know that our Father does not do things in that manner.

This is one of the endless things we will learn once we are all finally in God's Kingdom with our full inheritance.

His Peace to you Sister,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Geoff,

So true!

Ray also went into a rather detailed illumination of these verses from Isaiah as well, he held up a picture of the Hollywood/Babylon version of Jesus and contrasted that with what Isaiah wrote. Very powerful stuff, there was a lot of kleenex and hankerchiefs being whipped out about that time. 

Excellent addition Brother!

Peace,

Joe

[pylady]

This other part also sent me reeling once its full implication sunk in;

"Jesus Christ did something between His creation and the creation of the earth.  He did something to acquire God's glory, something.  Because He had it and He didn't get it for nothing."

Now that is also an incredible thing to meditate on, what did Christ go through to obtain the glory He shared with our Father even before He walked this earth? I had the perception that Christ was created as a perfect Son right from His very beginning and at times even had the thought that all this glory and power was just given to Him as to make everything quite a bit easier for Him to carry the burdon He eventually was charged with, but we know that our Father does not do things in that manner.


Such an interesting thought, Joe.  I always wondered how Jesus could have been so humble when on earth since He knew He was God's son.  Now I know - He learned through His experiences.  Makes you wonder what He went thru to be able to say "The Son can do nothing of His own initiative, but only what He beholds the Father doing"!

Is there such a thing as a teenage spirit???     Or maybe He wasn't spirit when He went thru these experiences? 
Lots of interesting questions - but, alas, we'll have to wait for the answers right now while we learn humility, patience, and all those other wonderful fruits of the spirit that He learned so perfectly.  Meanwhile we can look forward to the day when we can converse with Him face to face.

Your sister in Christ,

        Cindy 

[hillsbororiver]

  Meanwhile we can look forward to the day when we can converse with Him face to face.

Hello Cindy,

Great thought to contemplate, actually one of my very favorites and just imagine, we will have all the rest of eternity to converse with Him!

Peace,

Joe