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Author Topic: JESUS UPBRAIDS THE CHURCH LEADERS  (Read 3029 times)

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Craig

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JESUS UPBRAIDS THE CHURCH LEADERS
« on: June 13, 2008, 09:56:06 PM »

Dear Pat:  I will make a few COMMENTS... in your email:

    Um....
    This is too easy.
    Almost laughable if it were not as sad as it is.
    I know nothing of scripture compared to you obviously but...your not as humble as you think.
     
    JESUS UPBRAIDS THE CHURCH LEADERS
    The church was not yet...he was speaking to the unsaved Jews...not the Church.
    Thats just a simple comment.
    Way too easy...but lets stick to the authority of the Word.
     
    COMMENT:  Yes Pat, by all means, "let's stick to the authority of the Word."
     
    So, "The church was not yet...He was speaking to the unsaved Jews...not the Church."
     
    Oh really?  And so now you shout:  O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
     and chortle in your joy" [From the Jabberwocky], for thinking you made a Scriptural fool out of me, do you?
     
    The word "church" in English Bibles is translated from the Greek word "ekkelesia," and it means according to Dr. Strong: "called out, a religious congregation, assembly, church."  It is found approximately 60 times in the New Testament.
     
    In the Hebrew Old Testament we find a word meaning the same thing:  "edah," and it means: "assemblage, assembly, company, congregation" (Dr. Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). And it is found over 300 times in the Old Testament.
     
    Now then, what did the Holy Spirit inspired the Greek New Testament to use for this "congregation of Israel" called out of Egypt and into the wilderness?
     
    Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the CHURCH [Gk: 'ekkelesia'] in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.
     
    One more: Matthew is written pretty much in chronological order. That is, chapter one happened before chapter two, etc. Jesus "Upbraids" the Church leaders in chapter 23. But you say there was no "church" as yet. But we just presented about 300 Old Testament references to the contrary. Okay then, chapter 18 of Matthew comes before chapter 23 (where I said Jesus was speaking to CHURCH LEADERS). But if there was "no church yet," in chapter 23, how can there be a church in chapter 18?
     

    Mat 18:15-17-- Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the CHURCH: but if he neglect to hear the CHURCH, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
     
    I'll just use your words:

    "Um....
    This is too easy.
    Almost laughable if it were not as sad as it is."
    _________
     
    I  applaud your fire of desire...
    But self educated prideful fire is a damaging thing to the body of Christ.
    It is extreamly evident in the body today via the Web.
     
    Please allow others to make mistakes....just as big as the one that you made above for the whole world to read.
    Some scripture for you to look into.....
     
    A perverse man sows strife, and a whisperer separates close friends.
    (Pro 16:28)
     
    There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
    haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
    a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
    a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
    (Pro 6:16-19)
     

    For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish,
    and that you may find me not as you wish--that perhaps there may be quarreling,
    jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder.
    (2Co 12:20)
     
    ObviouslyI am not saying that your all of the above.
    But the difference between you and me is.....
    I am not going to blaze your name in front of all the world and the bretheren and anounce your easily seen blunder to the world.
     
    COMMENT:  Oh really? You're not? How kind of you.  Well maybe you won't, but I WILL!  We have had already approximately 3,000,000 unique visitors come to our sites, and I am sure there will be millions more in the future. So I will take it upon MYSELF "...to blaze [my] name in front of all the world and the bretheren and announce [my] easily seen blunder to the world."
     
    I will not give them your address or tell them not to buy the books you recommend.
     
    COMMENT:  Listen, Pat, I don't mind if you don't understand the Scriptures and disagree with me on things you know nothing about, but let's not get into the area of LYING.  I have never "told" people to "BUY the books I recommend."  People as me what books "I" use in "MY" studies, and I tell them. I do NOT tell them to BUY THEM.  You are out of line.
     
    They will know we are Christians by our love.
    Not too much of that in the Church today!!!!
     
    COMMENT:  Excuse me?  YOU say there is not too much love in the Church today and follow it with FOUR EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!?
    Yet you accuse me of wrong-doing and a lack of love, plus a whole plethora of character flaws, when I suggest that there is wrong in the Church today?  Give me a break.

     
    Something that you may like in your study is e-Sword.
    You can find it here: http://www.e-sword.net/
    It's free and helps you check what you have read and what you hear.
    I really admire the guy who created it and gives it away.
     
    I pray you take my input and at least meditate on it a bit.
     
    COMMENT: I have been using e-Sword for many years, and I have "meditated" on your mean-spirited nonsense as long as it took to write this reply, and I promise, I will not give it a further thought.
    May God grace you with maybe a little humility,
    Ray

     
    Blessings,
    Pat
     
     
     
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