> General Discussions
Who are the Called?
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: winner08 on June 19, 2008, 04:21:46 PM ---Hello everbody, I have something to say on this subject. Many are called and few are chosen. Just today my friend and I were discussing the Bible mainly revelations. She said why would God write a book that nobody can understand? I told her that many are called and few are chosen. Not everbody will understand the Bible and certainly not revelations. I told her that God picks a few out of the many and to them He will give the wisdom of knowing His word's. Then they will go out and teach it to the many. Then I told her how when Jesus taught it was in parables. That not even the deciples understood. That it wasn't untill after Jesus had gone and sent the Hoky Spirit back that they understood. Then I said If God let everybody understand His word (the Bible) then He (God) would have no need to have prophets to teach His word. Everybody is not ment to understand God's word. Untill God chooses you to understand then you won't.The same reason we have school teachers, if everybody already knew eveything there would be no need for teachers. Of course she has some problems with my ansewers. I think she thinks that God wouldn't give us his words in a book that we don;t understand. I think He would and did. Some of us are not ment to understand certain things at this giving time and place in our lives. This dosn't mean we shouldn't seek and ask questions. One day God will give us the ansewers we need to know. Throughout the ages the Lord has given a few people the wisdom to understand His word and they inturnd taught it to their people of that age. In the future He will give cartain people the wisdom to know His word and they will teach it to us ( Ray). How did I do??
Darren
--- End quote ---
Hi! Darren
In my book you passed with flying colours brother, you did excellently. Did your girl friend taste the bread crumbs that OBrenda mentioned and find them palatable and come back for more? You're in a unique position now so be prepared to give an account of why you believe as you do: " but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;" (1Pet.3:15). I have a feeling she will come back for more.
God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
gasman:
;D
Brenda,
You are the called. God called & you heard. Now you have to make your calling & election sure through obedience. Everyone that hears is the called. You can't hear if nothing is said.
I don't beleive in predestination that God only calls the few. Jesus went to prepare a place for us. Our destiny is to become Christ. That is our predetermined calling made ready for us by the death & ressurection of Jesus. To become the same as the first seed that went into the ground. We become the elect by obeying. The measure of our maturity in God determines our election. When you go to the garden to harvest a crop you pick the tomatoes that are the ripest. Not the green ones. That's how the Father will select us. If we forget those things that are behind & reach unto those things that are before us & press towards the mark of the high calling then we are changed from glory to glory to be more like Christ. If we become mature (perfect) as Jesus said he was mature ( fully formed, whole, complete like Christ) then we are ready to be elected (selected or harvested.)
It really is that simple. he said this is way, walk ye in it. That's why it's a narrow way. it's a hard path to follow. We can take the wide way following the path of least resistance but that leads to the carnal, the flesh or old man which leads to destruction. The church of this day is waiting for God to move inspite of their behaviour. God will reward us as we live. Faith is substance. It is real. Not a false hope.
It really is up to us. Not some predetermined subjective lottery that works for some & not for others.
Hope this helps
God Bless
Greg
Kat:
Hi Greg,
--- Quote ---I don't beleive in predestination that God only calls the few.
--- End quote ---
It sounds like there is a bit of 'free will' in your post? I'll just bring up what Ray says on predestination :)
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html ---
You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?" It is BOTH. Listen: God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE. That's it. That's all there is to it. That IS the principle. That IS the Truth. That IS what the Bible teaches. It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices." You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation. It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."
I hardly know what else to tell you. God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams. They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God. So then we don't make choices, right? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES. It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see. Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED. And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that? He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.
-----------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---We become the elect by obeying. The measure of our maturity in God determines our election.
--- End quote ---
The Elect are predestinated "before the foundation of the world."
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
v. 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
He is preparing the Elect their whole life, but they do not know it until He sends Jesus Christ by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then we can not be sure we are of the Elect until we endure to the end.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
The chosen/Elect must also be faithful to the end.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
We may not know for sure if we will make it to the end, but the Father has always known who will be of the Elect and not one that He has chosen to be His Elect will fail.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
gasman:
;D
I don't believe I said all that Kat. But I certainly don't agree that we have no choices to make, otherwise how do we overcome or put to death the flesh? I believe that we are in training to rule. We grow in favour through obedience just like Jesus did, so there has to be choices & a measure of free will. God does not dictate all my choices otherwise why is there any judgement? I haven't read any of Ray's postings & will en devour to do so as I find the time, but I don't believe I am wrong in this. However I am open to 'being' wrong. I don't have all truth nor profess to. The evidence of my studies is that we do have free will. How can you be trained to rule if all your choices have been predetermined? If Jesus said he would that non would perish then how can some be elect & some not? Our God is not a mean spirited being picking & choosing who goes in & who doesn't just on his whim. He doesn't have deficiencies in his character like we do & is no respecter of persons.
In my understanding the destination has been set that we can all achieve. The measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. We can all be the 'huios', the adopted ones. But how is this determined? By our actions & decisions. What else?
It doesn't matter how many scriptures you want to throw at me. All scriptural truths must be consistent with the character & nature of our God. He loves us & wants us all to succeed. At this stage you cannot convince me otherwise.
Just so you know, I'm not offended by your challenge.
God Bless
Greg
rjsurfs:
Hi Greg,
You said:
--- Quote ---I haven't read any of Ray's postings & will en devour to do so as I find the time
--- End quote ---
How did you agree to join our forum of like-minded believers if you have not read any of Ray's work? What we discuss is what we learn on bible-truths.com. If you haven't read any of that I don't believe you are going to have a clue as to what goes on here.
Bobby
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