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Is There Really A Hell?
hillsbororiver:
Hi Russell,
Please don't take this wrong but I am beyond sure that Rev2:4 is not speaking of your or anyone else's Pastor.
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Jam 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
I certainly do not dispute that the Spirit used your Pastor to drag or draw you to Christ but what Revelation 2:4 is saying is that the love for Christ (first love) had been replaced in the hearts of the church members with love for man, whether it be self love or love of the church itself minus Christ, He became second fiddle (or worse).
Peace,
Joe
Kat:
Hi Russell,
Welcome to the forum :)
--- Quote ---It was the Pastor who lead me to the Lord and guided my early learning.
--- End quote ---
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
God calls us into the church where we first learn of Christ. This is so we might gain a knowledge, though it is a knowledge of darkness. But this is necassary that we may have as a contrast to the light that we gain if we are chosen. But we must come out of the darkness, once we receive the light.
1Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
Here is a couple of emails concerning 'first love.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7112.0.html -----
My "First Love" was my first desire to repent and come out of this world and follow God's way, which I then deserted to a large extent and went back into the world, and then repented and returned to my First Love.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7618.0.html ------
Many have left their initial belief and acceptance of God and Jesus and have gone back into the world with a spiritually-minded vengeance! Thankfully, God recalls some out of that condition, as He has done with you. All we who have "left our First Love" have similar feelings about how stupid, and selfish, and carnal we became. But it is good to feel guilt and shame. These emotions help to continuously keep us from committing the same sins or to the same degree. We have to "COME OUT" of Babylon, and then we need to "STAY OUT." And the staying out is often as difficult as the coming out. The more we spiritually grow and understand, the more we see our shortcomings. It is good that God does not show us all of our sins all at once--it would be so over-powering and shameful, that we would have trouble facing another day. Glad that you have seen the Light.
God be with you,
Ray
Beloved:
Paul you wrote
The concept of evil men going to a place of torment after death first appeared in Jewish apocryphal writings of 3 to 1 B.C. These writings came from the thoughts of the Babylonian religions which the Jews brought back with them from Babylon. It was these books which spoke of eternal separation of good and evil and equating it to man's ultimate fate. Many Jews mixed these teachings with Judaism which brought about great problems. These writings, found their way into the Greek Septuagint (a Bible translation.) The Septuagint was used by the early Church. From there these writings got into the Latin Vulgate
You seem to be implying that the Old testament itself was contaminated by babylon pagan doctrine, and that the idea of separation of good and evil is a corrupt doctrine
then why did jesus himself say
(Mat 13:37) He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
(Mat 13:38) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
(Mat 13:49) So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
(Mat 25:31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(Mat 25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(Mat 25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
The word of genenna hades and sheol and tartarus are the words that have been corrupted, not the teaching of separation of good and evil.....all will be saved but all wil go through judgement except the elect that goes through tribulations during their lives on earth.
beloved
Paul:
That's an excerpt from an article by Gary Amirault. I credited it, but Craig editted the link out of the post.
Notice that he's talking specifically about eternal seperation of good and evil: isn't evil eventually going to be abolished? So, I think he's right about eternal seperation of good and evil being false.
Beloved:
You may want to read rays paper on the word eternal, it does not mean what it does in english. Some of Gary Amraults teachings are in error. he does cover the meaning of this word too. here is Rays study, I also think he has some audio on this same toic.
http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm
The wicked and righteous will be separated until........ All is in All
beloved
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