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Going to church?
digitalwise:
Good references, Kat from Ray! Of course we are on the SAME page here regarding deductive teaching from James and the correct doctrine. I cannot emphasise that enough here.
A comment on Web links:
The web links - but please check there authority, this same web site calls Paul the Apostle an idiot and a fool. Some web sites despite there apparent quality of sources will inflame negative perceptions of the historical record much like a brain labotomy - cut all positive bits and bring forward the negative bits.
A fair and unbiased treatment would be Wikipedia on Martin Luther without inducting other religious and denominational bias.
As for the other - I'll state again: The epistle of James in those times was corrupted by Papal so called scholar works mentality, that even this guy Luther had difficulty with it with his "papal" darkened and influenced mind. This is by inductive reasoning as to why this would be in this character of the man. The lack of native tongue bible translations, and other works of the bible WERE BANNED by the Catholic church and did not make the understanding any easier. Luther translated the bible to native German tongue for the COMMON people otherwise banned to the the point of death by church decree. Those were very different times. They were NOT the easy peasy times of today. For that we must not do violence to the historical record and be more even minded.
In those times - Faith was supposed to exist only in relics and elements santified by the Catholic church! And the reformation is all about countering that great lie from hades.
As is of today many churches have a failed understanding of the LAW and GRACE positioning of James. As of today many Christians do not understand the difference between IMPUTED righteousness as opposed to imparted righteousness. One is right standing with God based on the merits of Christ and the other is the endemic heresy of the old Armstrong movement, perfection holiness movements and legalistic organizations who seek control over weak minds in the churches.
An imparted doctrine of righteousness corrupts the free Gift of God in Christ and expects perfection in this life. It demands obligations and sacrifies made to the church organizations. One example is the evil tithing doctrine.
I believe NO man is justified by the WORKS of the LAW. [LAW underlined] James was expressing the outcomes that were the RESULT of the Spiritual outpouring that should manifest in believers as consequence of their faith.
When I say independent of Ray, I am dependent on NO mans teachings however it is a priviledge and a great faith boost to see those being called out of the "Babylonian churches" by Ray's study of the scriptures. Finally if the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, dwell in Ray who teaches the bible clearly then that same Spirit is more then capable in teaching other men and women in other parts of the world THE SAME identical teachings, independently. It is not dependent on one man.
We are on the same page - relax.
Blessings,
digitalwise
Dave in Tenn:
Thanks for the clarification, Digitalwise. I believe your testimony that God's Spirit can do and does do the same work through the same Spirit independantly. For my own small part, which is where my Spirit can bear witness, God began teaching me beyond what I had grown up with the very first time I read the New Testament as a teenager--beyond sound bytes from pulpit and sunday school class, filtered through denominational doctrine.
That understand began to grow the more I read and contemplated what I was learning as opposed to what I was being taught. Numbers mean nothing here as to what 'percentage' of right New Testament doctrine I was recieving straight from the scriptures, but I don't think it's a lie to say that I was part-way 'there'--and not just in rejection of heresy, but in understanding of truth.
My own nascent recognition of truth did NOT lead me to further study and a more perfect understanding, however. From that foundation (at least 35 years ago and for a number of years following), I have almost exclusively Ray to thank for whatever is built in me now and owe him a great debt.
So I pray for you and your ministry in Australia that God will open a new channel to call out His elect into an example of fellowship with sound doctrine and love.
Kat:
Hi digitalwise,
--- Quote ---I believe NO man is justified by the WORKS of the LAW. [LAW underlined] James was expressing the outcomes that were the RESULT of the Spiritual outpouring that should manifest in believers as consequence of their faith.
--- End quote ---
It is good to see that we have the same understanding where James is concerned.
As for Martin Luther, I do understand that he played a part in getting a non-corrupt Bible translated so that the people could have a Scripture source. That is one side of the story. Ray spoke a good deal about him in his Mobile Conference in 2007 'How We Got The Bible.'
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html -----
Martin Luther, 60 years before the King James came out, he is putting together a German Bible. But he’s not going to translate this one from the Latin, he used the recent Greek edition of Erasmus, the parallel of the Greek and the Latin. He puts that into German. So this is the first Bible in the European language that’s translated from the original language, Martin Luther’s Bible.
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I can see how there are independent believers and that only Jesus Christ is the real source of all undestanding. But it was through Ray's teaching that God has opened my eyes. He spends a lot His time studying the Scriptures and explaining in great detail what is revealed to him. This gives us here at BT the foundational truths that the church is totally lacking. From a solid foundation we can move on into our own study of the Word.
We are glad to have any like minded person join our fellowship :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
winner08:
Subject going to church: Yesterday I was telling a friend I would like to go to a church to see what they are preaching these days. It's been a very long time since I have been to church. Last time was a cathloic church, well I was raised cathloic. I know what they teach but I am ignorent when it comes to other religions. Just to see how far others go when teaching their own belief's. Should I do this or not I feel maby I shouldn't mess with this idea. Maby I just ansewered my own question.
Darren
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: winner08 on July 16, 2008, 09:00:12 PM ---Subject going to church: Yesterday I was telling a friend I would like to go to a church to see what they are preaching these days. It's been a very long time since I have been to church. Last time was a cathloic church, well I was raised cathloic. I know what they teach but I am ignorent when it comes to other religions. Just to see how far others go when teaching their own belief's. Should I do this or not I feel maby I shouldn't mess with this idea. Maby I just ansewered my own question.
Darren
--- End quote ---
Bingo...
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