Conformed Prior to Resurrection?

[joyful1]

Hi all!
On another forum, the question was posed;
Is "conformity to the image of Jesus" possible prior to the resurrection?

I thought of the example of Pi -- in mathematics -- just how close to Pi can you get and not "fully attain it?" God only knows!

But then I thought of this analogy and wanted to post it here to get your understanding on the issue.

Here is my post:
We were made "subject to vanity." And in that initial state, there is absolutely no way that we can be anything other than "subject to vanity!" We were "subject to" under the power of--vanity, self worship! Am I right?

Is it possible, however, that the old "chain of vanity" around our neck (the one that kept us bound for so long) became such a part of who we were, that we don't notice that its really GONE NOW? We know we are different now: a NEW CREATURE.......but just how different are we? We must find out!

The dog is tied to the tree. The dog wears a collar all his life. The dog is subject to the collar, it has power over him.  One day the master comes and takes the collar off of the dog. The master tells the dog to come inside the house, get warm, and have something to eat.  The dog comes to the door, wags his tail and stands in the rain....because the dog still thinks his collar will HURT him if he goes another step!

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Joyce,

I know of some who try convincing themselves that it (everlasting life, perfection) is now, usually they express this in all capital letters, "immortal life is NOW!" Who can testify to this? Stephen, Peter, any of the apostles? So far there is only One who has overcome death, we have the promise but it has yet to be fulfilled and it won't be until He returns.

Php 3:21  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Who as of now has a Spirit (incorruptable) Body like the Lord?

1Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


His Peace to you,

Joe

[joyful1]

So its really just like Pi....we try to get as close to it as we can...but God has placed it just outside our reach. We still strive to go on to "perfection/maturity" knowing that the most mature will somehow benefit us and the rest of the body, just beyond the grave, right?
Joyce

[Dave in Tenn]

What a fortunate dog.  He has a master who not only doesn't torture him, but releases him from his collar.  That's the sweetest thing that's happened to him in his life as a dog.  Two things have not happened yet, however, that will complete his transformation into what he is destined to become.

First, he lacks the wisdom of his master and faith in his master's goodness.  Isn't this still falling short of the glory?

Secondly, even if he believes and enters, he is still a dog.

[joyful1]

Dog was not a good choice, sorry Dave...let me try again:
The Caterpillar begins to feel that something really strange is happening to him....he climbs to a high branch and begins his change into a pupa prior to being confined to his chrysalis to sleep for a two week period. The pupa is different from being a caterpillar, but still confined to the tree where he has lived all his life. Suddenly the chrysalis breaks open and a beautiful butterfly (NEW CREATURE) emerges. When his wings first take flight.....he knows....he is totally free at last....and gloriously different from the day before! But in reality, the change began BEFORE he slept! How's that?

[Dave in Tenn]

What you are saying is that we are being conformed to the image of Christ NOW--before the resurrection?  A work of God to be completed in or after the Resurrection?  I certainly believe that.  I'm betting the caterpillar does too.   

But boy, if I'm wrong it's the last time I take the word of a bug! 

 

[Kat]

Hi Joyce,

I like your butterfly analogy 
Here is a section from the article no. 12 'GOD JUDGES THE WORLD IN A POND.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html -------------------------------


                        NOT YET IN THE IMAGE OF GOD

Few indeed realize that being made into the image of God is much the same as being saved—IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS!

Check all the verses in the original: "now saving," "to save," "shall save," "might save," "are being saved," etc. "For by grave ARE ye saved through faith..." tells us HOW we are being saved, not WHEN (Eph. 2:08). Verses such as I Cor. 1:18 in the King James, "...but unto us which ARE saved it is the power of God," is not a faithful rendering of the Greek. Check an interlinear. The words are thus: "...to-THE YET ones-beING-SAVED US..." Yes, often the original manuscripts have only endings and not the complete word, as in "ING." It clearly shows and uncompleted action.

Creating man in God's image:

King James Version: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; make and female created He them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

Concordant Version: "And saying is the Alueim [Hebrew: elohiym, gods or used of the supreme God--plural of elowahh, a deity or the Deity], Make will We humanity in Our image, and according to Our likeness... And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the Image of the Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them" (Gen. 1:26a & 27).

So we see here the same thing we have already discussed with regards to the Greek aorist tense of verbs, as in "For God so lovED the world" versus "For thus God lovES the world." God's love for the world CONTINUES! And creating man in God's image also CONTINUES!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[joyful1]

Kat, thanks for taking the time to post this...it really helps keep it all in perspective!  

Dave--I guess it is okay to learn from the caterpillar--we learn from the ant--right? heheheh  

I was thinking.....Ray's paper also points out that the WHOLE world is involved....not just ourselves as individuals....I think this WHOLE-NESS is a wonderful thing! This verse comes to mind:

Hebrews 11:40
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

I am going to say that Hebrews 11 makes me cry when I read it...
because those that came before us, who were justified for their faith, who were promised a thing that they would not yet SEE, were persuaded that it was REAL enough to be sawn into for....these guys are true heroes...and examples! It's like that for us, if God gives us such a position; we must live by the faith that He gives us, but we must "reckon" that the "glory" which SHALL BE REVEALED is so great, that the suffering of this life cannot even compare to it!

Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

I cry when I read Hebrews 11 and Romans 8....because I know....that it is true....it IS worth it....and the "knowing" is not my own...its His!
Joyce