> General Discussions
Why "Soul" and "Spirit"?
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: M_Oliver ---Prove "SOUL". Prove "SPIRIT". If you can with Scripture, I am the the liar.
--- End quote ---
No one accused you of being a liar, even if your point is refuted, we all are capable of being wrong. Yourself included.
Joe
hillsbororiver:
Your word was liar, no one else used it, can't you read your own quote?
I said anyone is capable of being wrong. No one man has all the knowledge or understanding, being wrong does not make one a liar. My friend it was you that brought in that word. Please make your point and stop with the pagan accusations, no one here is promoting paganism.
What is your opinion of these words which also have no Hebrew or Greek as their root word?
Elect
Main Entry: 1elect
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: i-'lekt
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin electus, past participle of eligere to select, from e- + legere to choose -- more at LEGEND
1 : carefully selected : CHOSEN
2 : chosen for salvation through divine mercy
3 a : chosen for office or position but not yet installed <the president-elect> b : chosen for marriage at some future time
Believe
Main Entry: be·lieve
Function: verb
Pronunciation: b&-'lev
Inflected Form(s): be·lieved ; be·liev·ing
Etymology: Middle English beleven, from Old English belefan, from be- + lyfan, lefan to allow, believe; akin to Old High German gilouben to believe, Old English leof dear -- more at LOVE
intransitive senses
1 a : to have a firm religious faith b : to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2 : to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so>
transitive senses
1 a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>
2 : to hold as an opinion : SUPPOSE <I believe it will rain soon>
- be·liev·er noun
- not believe : to be astounded at <I couldn't believe my luck>
Breath
Main Entry: breath
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'breth
Etymology: Middle English breth, from Old English br[AE]th; akin to Old High German brAdam breath, and perhaps to Old English beorma yeast -- more at BARM
1 a : air filled with a fragrance or odor b : a slight indication : SUGGESTION <the faintest breath of scandal>
2 a : the faculty of breathing <recovering his breath after the race> b : an act of breathing <fought to the last breath> c : opportunity or time to breathe : RESPITE
3 : a slight breeze
4 a : air inhaled and exhaled in breathing <bad breath> b : something (as moisture on a cold surface) produced by breath or breathing c : INHALATION
5 : a spoken sound : UTTERANCE
6 : SPIRIT , ANIMATION
- in one breath or in the same breath : almost simultaneously
- out of breath : breathing very rapidly (as from strenuous exercise)
chrissiela:
--- Quote from: M_Oliver ---
--- Quote from: chrissiela ---Sorry... I 'overposted' about 7 posts there :oops: ..... but I still do not see the "lie". :cry:
Chrissie
--- End quote ---
Prove "SOUL". Prove "SPIRIT". If you can with Scripture, I am the the liar. Until then, "soul" and "spirit" are the liar and OF the church.
--- End quote ---
I never said that you were wrong; I said that I didn't see the problem.
If nephesh mean a "breathing creature" and I understand that the word SOUL means, in essence, a "breathing creature"... what do I have to PROVE?
I can certainly prove that those are the words that are found in the english translation of the scriptures..... and in my opinion the meaning of the words are very similar in meaning/definition, even if not the 'best' translation.
How does changing "soul" to "breathing creature" change the meaning? What shall we use for "spirit"? Wind? Breath?
These are WORDS.
Do I need to go through my scriptures and cross out all the words "soul" and write in "breathing creature" so that my translation will be 'more accurate'? Even though I know/understand that the word SOUL refers to a BREATHING CREATURE?
--- Quote ---If the beast is the flesh and the flesh is the carnal mind WHY is not the opposite simply non-carnal or ethereal? Why must one abide in Egypt.
--- End quote ---
We are talking about WORDS?? How is using the words that are actually found in the scriptures (as translated) abiding in Egypt??
For instance, if I used the word "trinity" as part of my vocabulary or in my definitions/explanations about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, even though that word is nowhere found in the scriptures, then I could see a much more serious problem.... but we are talking about words that are actually found in the scriptures - as english translations of Hebrew (or Greek) words.
We can look at the Hebrew/Greek words in scriptures and make determinations about what the words mean, how they are used, etc, without physically changing them or re-writing the scriptures that we have.
Is that not part of studying to show yourself approved?
If we start changing the 'terminology' that is known and understood by most Christians who are already familiar with the scriptures, what good does that do? then you simply distance yourself even further and much more time and effort is involved in 'explaining' yourself and your beliefs to others.
--- Quote ---If you submit to "soul" and "spirit" you are a promoter of all the paganism that the blind church too supports. Where am I wrong?
--- End quote ---
I don't see how I am submitting to anything by using the words that are provided, as they are, in the scriptures..... there are many words that could be translated "better". But I don't see that as a requirement to go out and rewrite the scriptures to correct every erroneous word/translation. What and who would that benefit? Why isn't it enough to know and understand where the words come from and what they mean as a part of your study?
I can get "to the bottom of it" by studying the words that are there - to learn from where they are derived and what they mean; how they are used, etc, without actually 'changing' them.
They are the words that most are FAMILIAR with and I just don't see how changing my terminolgy from something that is familiar to something that is unfamiliar (but has the same or very similar meaning) in beneficial. Then I would have to go about changing the terminolgy of everyone else who reads and studies the scriptures if I want them to understand what I am saying or referring to.
I could see if the translated word was completely erroneous or just plain wrong.... like translating 'lâbân lâbên' (white) as "black" or "house" or something.... just not seeing the problem with words like "soul" and "spirit". Seems to me that there are bigger fish to fry??
Chrissie
Craig:
M_Oliver,
Calm down NOW.
You asked a good question. The group is responding, some are thinking out loud.
Joe is not setting a trap, so that is not the way it works. And no one is hanging you out to dry. You need to take a chill pill.
I personally would like to see this thread play itself out, but......if we can't keep this discussion civil I will lock this thread.
Remember, don't try to read more into a post than the writer intended. It is easy to do and feathers tend to get ruffled when it happens.
As for now I am locking this thread until tomorrow, so lets take a deep breath and consider our posts wisely.
Craig
Craig:
This thread is open again. Be civil and agree to disagree if it comes to that.
Craig
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