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[Dave in Tenn]

I have a big sin in my life.  God has been working in me to seek Him and stay away from it, and largely He has been successful (if that's the right word).  But remanants of it remain and I need to get rid of them.  This is clearly SIN and not 'subjective'.

But in contemplating the steps necessary to further seperate myself, I find myself mourning the loss of the sin more than mourning the loss that the sin has caused me.

This is troubling, as I don't know whether to wait for God to put the desire in me more, or to do what I think I need to do, knowing that my efforts in the past have been for nothing.

I guess it boils down to:  Does obedience come first, or change of heart?

I hope that makes sense.

[Imabeliever]

That is a question I would like to know the answer to, also! Great post!  I have remnants of sin in my life and feel guilty for having them. Maybe God lets those remnants remain so that we always remember to seek Him , keeps our eyes on the prize!!

[OBrenda]

Hey Dave,

IMHO.....First Step is recognizing that it is a SIN.  Which it sounds like you recognize this. Next comes an evolving process that we come to understand WHY it is a SIN and then to eventually Hate It. 

How do we arrive at Hating the Sin?  When we know the answer to Gen 4:9
Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"  He said, "I do not know; am I my brothers keeper? 
This is exactly how we justify SIN to ourselves.

God does not reply back to Cain a simple yes or no to this question.  But he does keep answering it throughout the rest of the scriptures from the OT through Revelation.  We will Hate the Sin when God gives us the Understanding how Ugly and hateful it is to effect our Brothers & Sisters.  If you still are at a place to mourn the loss of the Sin, you haven't learned yet the depth of why it is a Sin.

Whatever attempts we can make torward righteousness DO!
Even bringing light to it, by sharing it here will help you in your struggle that Christ has Won the victory of for all of us Sinners.

Matthew 6:33 states,
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God,and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." 
Obedience & Changes of Heart are intertwined, and all caused by God,

Just another sinner struggling with you,
Brenda
     

[Roy Monis]

Hi! Dave from Tenn

That was a great post Brenda and there is very little I can add except throw in my nickel worth. Somehow Ananias with his wife Sapphira, come to mind I don't know why because it is totally unconnected but there is a slight link. We have to be careful though how we use it. They both made a commitment to God and then failed to obey it.

Now I don't know whether you are going to believe this or not, it matters not, I'm giving it in any case. When I see a major sin in my life like drink, drugs, smoking, swearing, lying, hating and such, in my case it was smoking, and the rest also to a degree. If it is a matter of great urgency I appeal to God for help. That to me is a commitment whether it is granted immediately, later or never, it is still a commitment and should be honoured. From the moment of making that sincere commitment from the depths of your heart every time the temptation appears bring to mind that commitment to God. Believe me or not that sin will go and you'll field it no more. This is called FAITH and TRUST in GOD.

Not easy by a long chalk but certain to work, and you'll have His answer to your prayer. Be sure of it, He hears every appeal, measures its sincerity and answers it. I don't believe in the saying, He never answers prayer to me it's like saying He never forgives sin. He both forgives sin and answers every sincere request to be rid of it. " Trust in the LORD with all your heart. And do not lean on your own understanding.”   (Pro.3:5)

Mind you it gets you into a lot of trouble at times. I have given over telling lies for example, even small one, but when I tell the truth it makes life very difficult for me in the world around. But I have God to thank and His approval, that's all that matters.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK     
 
 

[Robin]

I read the boards late at night and look for scripture and then I'm too tired to post anything. So here they are.

Mark 7
20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

Matthew 15:18-20
18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

Matthew 23
26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

1 Peter 4
 1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, 2 that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. 3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.

Psalm 51:6-8
 6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts
         And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
 7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
         Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.,
 8 Make me hear joy and gladness,
         That the bones You have broken may rejoice.

Romans 6:16-18
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

[indianabob]

Good response Roy, similar to my experience.

Comment on your reference to making trouble for yourself with those around you when you speak truthfully and don't lie.

I have known people who had this character trait and yet didn't allow it to bring them into any conflict with others.
It seems that they were just quite good at diplomacy.  The had a reasoned answer for subject matter that came into the conversation and yet didn't take a contradictory stand against the other persons view.  We may think of it as statesmanship or as just learning to let the other person live their way without criticizing or seeming to criticize or correct.

This issue seems to come up quite often among Christians who feel the need to correct others for their own good.  Like me. ;o)
I think maybe it is a matter of timing.  I know that my wife needs to change a couple of her habits, but maybe NOW is NOT the best time to explain it to her.  Maybe in a couple of years would be better.  Or maybe I could just learn to live with the situation.

My point here is that learning to be a real Godly diplomat is the better approach to always telling the sometimes painful truth.
We always have the option of smiling and saying something like "how interesting" or "and how do you deal with that".  We can do this without leaving the impression that we condone the conduct.  It's hard but we can learn the skill.

When Jesus was correcting his brethren he set the example in Rev 2 & 3 by giving some praise in his opening remarks and then saying "I have somewhat against you" and then encouraging them in His closing remarks.  That seems a good approach for us as well.

I am certainly not one of the diplomats that I refer to above, so please respond with good advice for me.  I will not be offended since I view your comments as correction from God and will handle them accordingly.

Your brother in Christ, Indiana bob

Hi! Dave from Tenn

That was a great post Brenda and there is very little I can add except throw in my nickel worth. Somehow Ananias with his wife Sapphira, come to mind I don't know why because it is totally unconnected but there is a slight link. We have to be careful though how we use it. They both made a commitment to God and then failed to obey it.

Now I don't know whether you are going to believe this or not, it matters not, I'm giving it in any case. When I see a major sin in my life like drink, drugs, smoking, swearing, lying, hating and such, in my case it was smoking, and the rest also to a degree. If it is a matter of great urgency I appeal to God for help. That to me is a commitment whether it is granted immediately, later or never, it is still a commitment and should be honoured. From the moment of making that sincere commitment from the depths of your heart every time the temptation appears bring to mind that commitment to God. Believe me or not that sin will go and you'll field it no more. This is called FAITH and TRUST in GOD.

Not easy by a long chalk but certain to work, and you'll have His answer to your prayer. Be sure of it, He hears every appeal, measures its sincerity and answers it. I don't believe in the saying, He never answers prayer to me it's like saying He never forgives sin. He both forgives sin and answers every sincere request to be rid of it. " Trust in the LORD with all your heart. And do not lean on your own understanding.”   (Pro.3:5)

Mind you it gets you into a lot of trouble at times. I have given over telling lies for example, even small one, but when I tell the truth it makes life very difficult for me in the world around. But I have God to thank and His approval, that's all that matters.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK