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Revelation 20-23 what am I missing here?
Kat:
I think this verse is key to understanding what the "fire" in the Lake of fire is all about.
Jer 23:29 Is not My Word like a fire? says Jehovah; and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
v. 30 So Jehovah says, Behold, I am against the prophets who steal My Words each one from his neighbor.
v. 31 Jehovah says, Behold, I am against the prophets who use their tongues and say, He says.
v. 32 Jehovah says, Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams and tell them, and cause My people to go astray by their lies and by their lightness. Yet I did not send them nor command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all, says Jehovah.
Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is what shall burn and torment those in the Lake of fire, 'the Word of God.' Those who have been false teachers and have portrayed our God as some kind of monster who will torture most of mankind for eternity, all these arrogant, haughty blasphemers will be brought low and will be humbled. By the 'fire' of His Word.
Think about Paul, he says of himself to have been chief of sinners (1 Tim. 1:15), he was humbled in seconds. But you can see in Bob's post all that he had to suffer, it almost seems like Paul was being 'tormented' for righteousness sake. Paul makes a curious statement where he is talking about how much he cared for the Believers.
2Cor 11:28 Besides those things that are without, there is that which presseth upon me daily, anxiety for all the churches.
v. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is caused to stumble, and I burn not?
You can see he is talking about how he felt when one of the Believers messed up, it says he burned. This is a feeling he had, just like those in the Lake of fire will be 'burning' on the inside. It's the feeling they will have when they learn how wrong they have been.
Just wanted to show these Scriptures, as the Scriptures are a parable and those whose eyes are opened will be shown how to put these things together to find the answers, but you must dig it out :)
mercy, peace and love
Kat
iris:
Hi Joe,
It seems like those that goes through the LOF would come out on the other
side (so to speak) in perfect condition. Or...as perfect human beings...
wouldn't they?
Iris
hillsbororiver:
Hi Iris,
Yes, I agree they will be purified, you also alluded to what I have yet to find a clear answer to and that is do they emerge as spirit or as a perfect human to be "changed" (into spirit) at some future point?
Peace,
Joe
indianabob:
--- Quote from: hillsbororiver on July 28, 2008, 01:06:40 PM ---Hi Iris,
Yes, I agree they will be purified, you also alluded to what I have yet to find a clear answer to and that is do they emerge as spirit or as a perfect human to be "changed" (into spirit) at some future point?
Peace,
Joe
--- End quote ---
Good comment Joe,
Most have wondered about this and I haven't a qualified answer either, however we can perhaps get a hint by the experience of our Elder Brother when he was resurrected and appeared to the others. It is evident that he had spiritual qualities after his resurrection that had not been apparent before then and yet he was able to appear and communicate with his brethren as if he was the same.
I think, without scriptural evidence at this time, that the Bible gives indications of how God works with humankind and it is my impression that we cannot be perfect while we are yet flesh and blood. The old man must die.
Jesus was unique in this manner and there will not be another like him. God can grant us the life of the age to come and immortality but Jesus will always be the only begotten son of God who has not sinned or never come short of the glory that is God.
God willing perhaps we can meditate on this question and explore what Kathy has transcribed of Ray's articles and find a better answer.
AK4:
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
He put his Spirit in them...
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Their bodies are now dead because of sin because the Spirit of Christ is in them. And His spirit that he puts in them, quickens (makes alive)their mortal bodies after going through the LOF/second death.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
So now since they have His spirit they will also bear the image of the heavenly.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
They get a body like His because they have his spirit and their carnal minds are subdued. And now for indianabobs comment....
Most have wondered about this and I haven't a qualified answer either, however we can perhaps get a hint by the experience of our Elder Brother when he was resurrected and appeared to the others. It is evident that he had spiritual qualities after his resurrection that had not been apparent before then and yet he was able to appear and communicate with his brethren as if he was the same.
Great comment indianabob, I agree. Maybe this is the end/new beginning result also for those in the 2nd resurrection they will be like the One who put his spirit in them. So this prayer that Jesus gave...
John 17:20-23
20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
....was for ALL that go through the lake of fire--the elect and those in the 2nd resurrection.
I want to keep trying to link scripture with what i've put here, but it feels as if i could on forever (eonian ;D). I hope i didnt stretch this too far.
in Jesus
Anthony
ps why cant those that come out of the lake of fire/second death get the same treatment as those that are in the first resurrection? this thought humbles me more because it reassures me that no one will be superior to the other when the consumption of the ages arrives
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