Corithians

[Laren]

Were the carnal Corithians still in Babylon?  Seems the answer is yes.  So why did Paul keep going back to them, and keep in touch with them?  Seems he should have got the heck out of there, as he was out of Babylon.  Come out and never go back.

[ertsky]

i fellowshipped in a denominational church for ten years and the doctrine there was extremely Babylonian

even though i was decieved and believed a lot of those lies i still got thrown out for questioning and refuting the bits i could see were wrong

another ten years after that i finally got set free from the Babylonian lies i had not shaken after all that time. (Thank You Lord!)

so God had me come out of Babylon a decade after i got thrown out of babylonian church so to speak.

So why did Paul keep going back to them, and keep in touch with them?

Paul wrote towards the end

2Ti 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

in asia things were not all great as we read in Revelation

Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

we go on to read about

left first love
nicolaitans
balaam
jezebel
etc etc etc

(all of which is fulfilled in me also inwardly)

your post seems to be bucking the spiritual truth that the elect come out of Babylon

as in

Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

what exactly are you saying

that the church is not Babylon ?

certainly the fellowship i attended was harlot like in doctrine and practice in many many ways

i hasten to add

Rom 11:36 Because, of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things:â€"unto him, be the glory, unto the ages. Amen!
f

[shibboleth]

Could it be that Paul was preaching to the elect to come out of the Babylon church? Just as we, if given the  opportunity, talk to people  still in Babylon, Paul was probably trying to chide them into either leaving or repenting. Remember, the church was still young, and Paul had his work cut out for him trying to teach spiritual truths to carnal believers.

[Laren]

The gospel of be conciliated to God is what we are to preach.  Why preach this to those out of Babylon, they already know this.  Through the foolishness of preaching, God will bring the chosen out of the called.

I'm not necessarily talking "church denomination, or church building", but it seems to me we are to come out of Babylon and never return (never go back to living by the law, self works,  confusion, we are to stay firm in our faith) and yet take this gospel to those in babylon as those God has chosen to come out, will do so by the foolishness of preaching.  

Does this make any sense?  Or am i way off base?  I thank many who preach be concilated to Christ.  I heard it, and my eyes were opened.  If noone preached it, i couldn't hear it.

[chrissiela]

Laren,

As I see it not all are called to preach/teach, as Paul was:

1Co 12:28  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Co 12:29  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

1Co 12:30  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Co 12:31  But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.[/list:u]

So I agree with you, in that there is still a need to have the gospel preached to the "lost"....


Chrissie

[Laren]

Laren,

As I see it not all are called to preach/teach, as Paul was:

1Co 12:28  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Co 12:29  Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

1Co 12:30  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Co 12:31  But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.[/list:u]

So I agree with you, in that there is still a need to have the gospel preached to the "lost"....


Chrissie

Good point Chrissie.  But whether we preach the gospel or not, aren't we to share the love of Christ to the saints, to desire them to come to maturity.  To comfort them, to share in their sufferings, to suffer ourselves for their salvation?  If we seperate ourselves physically from this, how can we do this??  Aren't we to stay spirituallly firm in our belief (stay seperate) yet assist the babes along in their walk?  

Like I said, I'm so appreciative of those who have demonstrted the love of Christ to me, have prayed for me, have held my hand, have rebuked me when needed, to assist me in this maturing process.

[chrissiela]

Laren,

I don't see that as a purely black and white 'issue' but I will say that (1) we are to be a LIGHT unto the world (by example/deed) and (2) we are to be ready to give an answer for the hope we have in Christ, when asked.

Chrissie

[hillsbororiver]

As Chrissie said we all have different commissions and we all have different gifts.

When God's Spirit moves us in one direction or another He is not exactly subtle about it, His will is done and usually we are only unwitting accomplices.

There have been many times I have read posts where there is a compulsion on someones part to DO SOMETHING, we are doing something when we seek Him and the fruits of His spirit. If we are truly growing toward perfection, Having charity/love toward all, then isn't everyone we come into contact with being blessed? Why stress over something we have no control over?


Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up, at the last day.

Joh 15:19  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

He will set the perimeters, and will draw whomever He wills, leave it in His capable Hands. Don't worry about it, trust in Him;

Mat 11:30  For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

If and when He uses our example to draw someone to Him we should be always be ready;

1Pe 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I love that verse, if some of you haven't guessed already.

Joe

[Daniel]

i fellowshipped in a denominational church for ten years and the doctrine there was extremely Babylonian

even though i was decieved and believed a lot of those lies i still got thrown out for questioning and refuting the bits i could see were wrong

another ten years after that i finally got set free from the Babylonian lies i had not shaken after all that time. (Thank You Lord!)

so God had me come out of Babylon a decade after i got thrown out of babylonian church so to speak.

So why did Paul keep going back to them, and keep in touch with them?

Paul wrote towards the end

2Ti 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

in asia things were not all great as we read in Revelation

Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

we go on to read about

left first love
nicolaitans
balaam
jezebel
etc etc etc

(all of which is fulfilled in me also inwardly)

your post seems to be bucking the spiritual truth that the elect come out of Babylon

as in

Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

what exactly are you saying

that the church is not Babylon ?

certainly the fellowship i attended was harlot like in doctrine and practice in many many ways

i hasten to add

Rom 11:36 Because, of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things:â€"unto him, be the glory, unto the ages. Amen!
f

Can I ask you ertsky, or someone else here, why that which was written to the seven churches in Asia only? I might be a new learner here but I that struck me, why Asia? Was every church in Asia only?

There were churches in babylon, and in Judea and other places. I'm not sure I'm understanding why its adressed to Asia alone. Can someone help explain this to me? You can tell I'm a newbie trying to catch up :lol:

Daniel

[ertsky]

cant help there Daniel, i dont know why God picked those particular seven to be the ones to represent the "church" total

He could have made it any seven churches He'd wanted to of course, but it was those seven in Asia that He ordained to be the seven.

maybe it's a bit like all things

why Abraham
why David
why Mary
why the 12
why Judas

why me Lord! LOL!

i think all these things might be worth studying but as the Word says

Rom 11:33 Oh! the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments! and untraceable his ways!
Rom 11:34 For who hath come to know the mind of the Lord? Or who hath become his counselor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given unto him, and it shall be recompensed to him again?
Rom 11:36 Because, of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things:â€"unto him, be the glory, unto the ages. Amen!

Isa 46:10 Declaring from the beginning, the latter end, And from olden time, that which had never been done,â€"Saying My purpose shall stand, and All my pleasure, will I perform;
Isa 46:11 Calling, From the East, a Bird of Prey, From a far country, the Man I intended,â€"Yea I have spoken I will also bring it to pass, I have planned, I will also do it.
Isa 46:12 Hearken unto me, Ye valiant of heart,â€"Who are far away from righteousness:
Isa 46:13 I have brought near my righteousness. It shall not be far away, And my deliverance, shall not linger,â€"But I will give In Zion, deliverance, To Israel, my glory.

GOD WHAT A GOD!!

HE JUST BLOWS ME AWAY!!

f

oh if you ever get any light on the asia thing be sure and let me know

[orion77]

I think it is important we don't forget how God has treated us, with patience, mercy and forgiveness, and to treat our fellow man in the same way.  By not paying evil back with evil, but forgiving those who tresspass against us.  This is Gods way, and this is what Paul was doing by leading by example.

God bless,

Gary

[chrissiela]

Why Asia?? WOW! GOOD QUESTION.... never even thought about that before....   :oops:

Tried to look at it, briefly, and Asia means "muddy, boggy" and the Holy Spirit prevented the gospel from being preached in Asia initially...

Act 16:4  And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

Act 16:5  

And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Act 16:6  Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, :shock: [/list:u]


but then it seems that it was opened up to Paul....

Act 19:9  But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Act 19:10  And

this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Act 19:11  And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:[/list:u]

Certianly some things to delve into further  :wink:

Interesting to note that this is after Paul said that he would 'from henceforth' take the gospel to the GENTILES..... (the Jews being blasphemous and unreceptive to the gospel).

Act 18:4  And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Act 18:5  And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

Act 18:6  

And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.[/list:u]

and after this:

Act 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Act 19:7  

And all the men were about twelve.  :shock:  :?: [/list:u]


Chrissie

PS... only skimmed over the chapters - so hope I got the order of things right - as it is late but will look at it some more tomorrow.... maybe someone else will have more to add in the meantime....

[Daniel]

Thank you for try Ertsky, theres so much I do not understand, I'll be happy when I do trust me, God is good! Amen!

Chrissiela, Thank you so much!!! I thought this was a good question too! I think I will search this out. I see there were churches in certain places and I never this before. The churches (plural) in Asia turned away from Paul. I was wondering why did it not say to the churches everywhere? Why Asia? :?

Acts 20:4 Tychicus was of Asia

2Titus 1:15  This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

After this a few chapters later Paul says

2Titus 4:12 And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus.

So He did not defect from Paul, and then I was asking myself why 2Titus 1:15 is worded like that, "of whom" the two its speaking of. I dont know honestly I have to do my homework here don't I ? :lol:

Thank you very much for helping me Chrissiela, what are you seeing in the "after this" section of your post please do share if you can

Daniel

[chrissiela]

OK... been looking at this this morning (was hoping that someone else might have added something else to it first.... but here goes  :roll: )


It appears that Paul made 3 journeys and he did not go into Asia until the last. At first the gospel was being preached in the synagogues to the Jews (though others did hear and were converted).

It wasn't until a while later that Paul and Barnabus were 'separated' (Acts 13:2) for the others for that which THEY were called (to bring the gospel to the Gentiles).

I couldn't find much about the churchs in Asia in the scriptures. Most of them are not even mentioned at all, except in the Book of Revelation when the letters go out to the seven churches.  :shock:


But in reading about Ephesus (one of the churches in Asia that IS discussed elsewhere in the scriptures), it appears that perhaps the churches in Asia (or the people and their beliefs) are more representative of the 'world' as a whole, rather than the Jewish nations.  :?:  :?:

Took note of this:

Act 19:24  For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith,

which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;

Act 19:25  Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.

Act 19:26  Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:

Act 19:27  So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and THE WORLD worshippeth.[/list:u]

Surely these were not Jews who were at least aquainted with the One true God and Father.

Christ came to the Jews (His own people) first and He was rejected.... through their rejection (and casting off) the gospel was brought to the Gentiles - for the salvation of ALL....

So thinking that the 'churches in Asia' represent that which was brought to the Gentiles.  :?:  :?:

Not even Paul took the gospel to the Gentiles immediately. He taught initially in the synagogues... and he didn't go into Asia until his last journey.

That's what I have so far..... but still looking.....  :wink:

Chrissie

[chrissiela]

Thank you very much for helping me Chrissiela, what are you seeing in the "after this" section of your post please do share if you can  

HA! I wish I could!!  :lol:  :lol:

Not really sure.... just popped out at me that Christ had twelve disciples and Paul found twelve disciples in Ephesus (One of the seven churches mentioned in Asia... this one being the most prominent in the scriptures, outside of the book of Revelation).

Act 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth,

Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Act 19:7  And all the men were about TWELVE.

Act 19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act 19:9  But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Act 19:10  And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.[/list:u]

Seems that Paul separated himself and these disciples and for the space of 2 years taught in the school of Tyrannus.... resulting in the gospel being preached to ALL (both Jew and Greek) in Asia.

Just thought it was interesting...    

Chrissie

[Daniel]

Thank you Chrissiela for yyour help, you gave me so much you look at  I found this interesting too, which answers my first question.


Rev1:1 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.  (the rest of the bunch)

Then these

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand[/u], and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.


1Titus 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;[/b]

Does not the above scriptures remind you somewhat of this verse?


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Stars are angels in the "hand" of a mediator? Sounds very close to the Lord in whose hand were seven stars defined as angels in His hand, Him being the mediator of a new covenant.

Any other thoughts?

Daniel

[Daniel]

Thank you very much for helping me Chrissiela, what are you seeing in the "after this" section of your post please do share if you can  

HA! I wish I could!!  :lol:  :lol:

Not really sure.... just popped out at me that Christ had twelve disciples and Paul found twelve disciples in Ephesus (One of the seven churches mentioned in Asia... this one being the most prominent in the scriptures, outside of the book of Revelation).

Act 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth,

Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Act 19:7  And all the men were about TWELVE.

Act 19:8  And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Act 19:9  But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Act 19:10  And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.[/list:u]

Seems that Paul separated himself and these disciples and for the space of 2 years taught in the school of Tyrannus.... resulting in the gospel being preached to ALL (both Jew and Greek) in Asia.

Just thought it was interesting...    

Chrissie

Chrissiela,

This is facinating! Thank you, you have been a great help to me. God bless you for the time you have taken to look into these things for me

Daniel

[ertsky]

i was reading a bit and saw these verses

Act 19:26 and you are beholding and hearing that, not only of Ephesus, but of almost the entire province of Asia, this Paul by his persuading causes a considerable throng to stand aloof, saying that they are not gods which are coming into being by means of hands."
Act 19:27 Now, not only is this endangering our party, by it coming to be confuted, but the sanctuary of the great goddess Artemis also is being thereby reckoned nothing. Besides, her magnificence is about to be pulled down also, whom the whole province of Asia and the inhabited earth is revering."
Act 19:28 Now, hearing this and becoming full of fury, they cried, saying, "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!"


theres certainly a lot more to the word Asia in scripture than i thought

but then that's true of everything

also fantastic that God will completely destroy the temple of Artemis that is in me

f

[worm]

Can I ask you ertsky, or someone else here, why that which was written to the seven churches in Asia only? I might be a new learner here but I that struck me, why Asia? Was every church in Asia only?

very interesting questions indeed Daniel...

why did Jesus equate the churches established by Paul as being "Babylon"?
he did not do this with the church of Jerusalem (to take one example) established by Peter and James...is Jesus trying to tell us something more?

Jesus also instructed ALL apostles to go and teach the Gospel to "the lost sheep of Israel"...from history we know that after the Assyrians captured Israel (10 tribes of the north)...they settled between the Black and Caspian seas and later on trekked into Asia and Europe...

Paul decided that if the Jews don't listen he'll tell it to the Gentiles...are these Gentiles "the lost sheep of Israel" or not?
Did Paul dissobey the instruction of Jesus or not?

mmm...what do you guys think?

[hillsbororiver]

Do not forget the Spiritual implications, His words are spirit;

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.

From Lake of Fire Part 7

THE 7 CHURCHES ARE GOD’S CHURCHES

Make no mistake, the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 are the churches of the Living God! They are not pagan churches, neither are they Satan’s churches, but they are GOD’S churches!  It is none other than Jesus Christ Himself Who

"...walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks [which are the seven churches]" (Rev. 2:1).

"He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit [of GOD] says unto the churches" (Rev. 1:7, 11, 17, 29, 2:6, 13, 22).

We must understand what the Spirit says, which Christ interprets to mean having an ear (an spiritual ear) that can understand. This is not some game of Dungeons and Dragons. This is real life. This is the way God has designed it. God has shrouded the mysteries of life in parables and metaphors and symbols.

When Adam and Eve could lazily pick their fruit and food with little effort, they had little appreciation for them. God wants us to desire His way above life itself. He wants us to sell all that we have so that we can purchase the pearl of great price. He wants us to buy a field that has hidden treasure in it. God wants us to use our body, mind, and spiritâ€"everything we have, to acquire the HIGH CALLING.

Paul said, forgetting the things that are past, he pressed onward and upward. I am not trying to sound melodramatic, but that’s just the way it is. We really do wrestle with "spiritual forces of wickedness" (Eph. 6:12).



http://bible-truths.com/lake7.html

Joe