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winner08:
There's a saying that goes something like this: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it. To make an informed decision one most have good information. Myself I like to know everything possible on the subject then make a well inform decision. Besides that it is very interesting to know where and how these pagan rituals got started. Also how they found their way into the man made christian doctrine.

                                             Darren

jakfr0s:
  Darren, that is the doctrine of man; "There's a saying that goes something like this: Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."  Let God deal with our history, which has always been nothing but evil. God is in total control of our past, present, and future, not man. Do a google search on this man "George Santayana" he seems to have his own version of Scriptures, and seems to believe in eternal torment in hell. He also seems to be responsible for the above "saying".

I totally agree and support all those that say we need to stick with Scriptures. I have no interest in that pagan garbage, and the only way Im gonna read or listen to it is from Ray, because I personally believe that he is much better grounded than most of us in Scriptures and he is much better equipped to teach and tell us what to look out for. I believe God brought us here cause he knew we were ready in every way for the Truth. Combined we have a lot of knowledge about babylone. Why would anyone want to go back into something Babylonian related after just coming out?  Remember Ray is much further along in this Spiritual walk than most of us, and only by the Grace of God. If you wanna read that pagan crap that is your business, but please dont be telling people who just came out of that to go reading it. I believe we need to build a solid foundation from Scriptures,like Ray before we can start teaching others what to look out for. Im sorry but Im seeing alot of things on this forum that shouldn't be happening. But it is happening, just as God has planned. Why would that be? I love the Truth in the Scriptures, I have learned more from them in the short time Ive been here, then all my time I spent in babylone, and that was a long time. I feel I know enough about babylone, and Im sick of it, and now I wanna know even more about the Truth in Scriptures so as to get a good grounding in it like Ray. Seems there isnt a whole lot of support for those speaking the Truth as it is written.  Forgive me God if Im wrong. If no one else can see it I must be wrong. Once again, I totally support and agree with those who believe we need to stick to Scriptures and Ray's teaching, cause im sure we all know and can agree he is very blessed, and has truly found favor with our Heavenly Father.  If there be any doubt, maybe we should ask Ray what we should be reading. Remember if we are to be the Elect then we have to be in Unity, like minded. Im praying for you all.

  1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

  2Jn 1:2  For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

  2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 

  Deu 13:14  Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

  Jos 24:14  Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.

  God bless you all, I eagerly look forward to your responses.

  Your Friend in Christ Jesus, George D.

indianabob:
Folks,

On the study of paganism and pagan style Christianity I have studied a little over the years.
So, I want to state this carefully when I say that it is quite well accepted in some segments of society that a person needs to have doubts about their current practices or beliefs before they will become interested in NEW truth (new to them). 

Perhaps that is why some of us are led to examine the background of these practices in order that we may confirm our observations and to be better able to stir up doubt in the minds of our friends or relatives who are still trapped in pagan Christianity.  If true, since our motive is to help, that may or may not be a laudable purpose.

The question that comes to mind after reading all that has been presented is this; do we, any of us, need to stir up doubt or offer answers or offer solutions to problems that we see in other people or other organizations?  Is it our job, since becoming
aware that we are called of God, to go out and CALL others?  Or is it rather God's job to CALL others according to His will?

Are some of us perhaps, trying to do what God alone can do?  Are we lovingly and yet impatiently trying to draw others into our intimate sphere in order to have those close to us become aware of what we are being taught spiritually?

I have learned interesting "facts" from the casual scanning of pagan sources, but very little of it was required to teach or share the truth of God's plan and purpose with others who were sincerely interested in obeying God and serving Christ.  Those who are not already interested in obeying are probably not being called.  It is more likely that they are just curious or worried by world events etc. and that natural, carnal, human curiosity may lead me to believe incorrectly that they are called by God.

I suppose the bottom line in my response here is that much of the information we can glean from study of pagan sources will not be helpful in CONVERTING anyone else, many of the authors of these books remain in "Christendom" perhaps trying to reform it and I don't believe that will happen based upon human effort. 

Perhaps we should focus on learning how to make God's truth interesting, exciting and motivating as we prepare ourselves to share it with those who truly are being called.  Then after they, the newly called, have learned God's plan, from scripture and the guiding of Christ's/God's spirit and study of bible truths which have been carefully constructed for sharing with newbies, they will begin to benefit from fellowship with us.

There are many neighbors and friends who truly NEED what we are learning, but we must ask ourselves whether NOW is the time for us to share, whether NOW is the time that God is calling them.  We may need to keep in mind that what we now see and understand CANNOT be seen and understood by most others, even though they are our friends or spouses.

Just my view.  And please realize that these remarks do not provide comprehensive coverage of the subject matter.

With love, indianabob

KristaD:
The author and book mentioned may not be the best way to go about learning about paganism in christianity but that is no reason to write off that knowledge entirely. It's not always necessary for those that have left the churches to find out more reasons why churches are wrong but sometimes people need to know those things in order to not go back or to leave in the first place. Also the subject of paganism in the christian holidays is something that we must be aware of to leave. Many people will still revel in pagan traditions with no knowledge of what they are doing, I think it's better to find out. God has given us many sources of information and we all know that He works through EVERYTHING. A simple look in an encyclopedia will reveal the pagan roots of many practices. Since the holidays that we have now did not exist in the times that the scriptures were written they are not listed by name and revealed for what they are but we are admonished to "do not as the heathens do". Shouldn't we be aware if what we are doing is what the heathens do? I'm not saying to learn everything that they do but just compare what we ourselves are already doing to what they do. I'm not saying once you know those things that you need to study it further or dwell on it at all. God took me through a time where He was revealing many evils to me and many pagan things, He also enabled me to turn from them, which I could only do if I KNEW what they were. After I had that knowledge there was no more time or effort spent on the matter.
I'm not going to look to any other person on this earth for all the answers. If I rely on another man's relationship with God for my own then I am doomed, what if that man died and I couldn't ask Him questions or what if he was wrong? Jesus is the only One who I can rely on and I trust that when I pray to God that He hears me and that when I ask Him for knowledge He will lead me to a source that will give me that knowledge and He will show me the good from the bad and the lies from the truth.
I think whether or not we seek out that knowledge to educate others is an entirely different matter. I sought the knowledge for my own learning.
Once again I have no idea about the author or the book mentioned as I have no need read it to learn those things again, I am simply commenting on the subject of becoming educated about paganism in christian traditions.
If anyone is able to understand the scriptures well enough and hear God well enough to obtain knowledge about things that aren't directly stated in the scriptures then truly they have no need to look anywhere else for any knowledge but I don't believe that most of us start out with that ability.

indianabob:
Well said Krista,

Especially about not looking to any other person for the truth when you have the source of all truth teaching you.
Isn't it interesting how Jesus puts thoughts in our mind to guide us.  " a still small voice" I Kings 19:12 ,speaking tenderly as to a beloved child,  Rather than with the trumpet or the whirlwind as he must do with the worldly.  What blessings we have.

Bob



--- Quote from: KristaD on August 03, 2008, 07:51:05 PM ---The author and book mentioned may not be the best way to go about learning about paganism in christianity but that is no reason to write off that knowledge entirely. It's not always necessary for those that have left the churches to find out more reasons why churches are wrong but sometimes people need to know tIhose things in order to not go back or to leave in the first place. Also the subject of paganism in the christian holidays is something that we must be aware of to leave. Many people will still revel in pagan traditions with no knowledge of what they are doing, I think it's better to find out. God has given us many sources of information and we all know that He works through EVERYTHING. A simple look in an encyclopedia will reveal the pagan roots of many practices. Since the holidays that we have now did not exist in the times that the scriptures were written they are not listed by name and revealed for what they are but we are admonished to "do not as the heathens do". Shouldn't we be aware if what we are doing is what the heathens do? I'm not saying to learn everything that they do but just compare what we ourselves are already doing to what they do. I'm not saying once you know those things that you need to study it further or dwell on it at all. God took me through a time where He was revealing many evils to me and many pagan things, He also enabled me to turn from them, which I could only do if I KNEW what they were. After I had that knowledge there was no more time or effort spent on the matter.
I'm not going to look to any other person on this earth for all the answers. If I rely on another man's relationship with God for my own then I am doomed, what if that man died and I couldn't ask Him questions or what if he was wrong? Jesus is the only One who I can rely on and I trust that when I pray to God that He hears me and that when I ask Him for knowledge He will lead me to a source that will give me that knowledge and He will show me the good from the bad and the lies from the truth.
I think whether or not we seek out that knowledge to educate others is an entirely different matter. I sought the knowledge for my own learning.
Once again I have no idea about the author or the book mentioned as I have no need read it to learn those things again, I am simply commenting on the subject of becoming educated about paganism in christian traditions.
If anyone is able to understand the scriptures well enough and hear God well enough to obtain knowledge about things that aren't directly stated in the scriptures then truly they have no need to look anywhere else for any knowledge but I don't believe that most of us start out with that ability.

--- End quote ---

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