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Pagan Christianity
Dave in Tenn:
If you can accept that Paul's short 'sermon' on meat has any relevancce to this discussion (I can and do) I call to our remembrance Romans 14 without comment.
Rom 14:1 Accept the person who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion. 2 One person believes that he can eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 The person who eats must not despise the person who does not eat, and the person who does not eat must not criticize the person who eats, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you to criticize someone else's servant? His own Lord will determine whether he stands or falls. And stand he will, because God is able to make him stand. 5 One person decides that one day is better than another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God." 12 Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean. 15 For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat. 16 Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
18 For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people. 19 Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up. 20 Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person fall because of what you eat.
21 The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble or become upset or weak. 22 As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves! 23 But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith; and anything that is not done in faith is sin.
kweli:
--- Quote from: gmik on August 02, 2008, 06:46:52 PM ---I was watching the Travel Channel on China. In Xian province they have discovered thousands of terracotta soldiers who were to "guard' the emperor in his after life! Sounds like Egypt to me.
--- End quote ---
You are such a teacher :D :D :D
Amen to that older brother Dave. There may be more truth in that passage for this topic than we realize. I especially like verses 10-17, with 18 as the pivot. Okay, the whole passage is enlightening.
KristaD, I dont think we are relying on any man to learn anything. I believe we are relying on God to open our eyes to His Word, sometimes (actually more often) using a mere man. That's how He has been operating ever since. So I guess the trick is knowing which man He is using. I cant pretend to know that but I can say without a doubt that the man (or woman, looking at Priscilla in Acts and others) He may be using must speak according to Christ and His appointed apostles in His Word. I may be wrong, but I hope not completely.
All Glory To GOD
psalmsinger:
Thank you Dave for your perception of the scriptures. Many here know of the pagan influence in standard christianity through many sources, including Ray's writings. The first I ever heard of "salvation of all" and the "reconciliation of all things" was from the writings of Frank Viola. Unfortunately, for the most part, you did have to "buy the book", which ironically enough seems to be more of a modern day pagan practice. I thank God for all He has revealed to me from whatever source and will not discourage anyone from reading other works or even listening to other speakers because of the scriptures you quoted. God has a reason and purpose for every word published, ultimately a good purpose:)
Phil 1:18-19
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
(KJV)
Rest in the Lord,
Barbara
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 03, 2008, 09:11:14 PM ---If you can accept that Paul's short 'sermon' on meat has any relevancce to this discussion (I can and do) I call to our remembrance Romans 14 without comment.
Rom 14:1 Accept the person who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion. 2 One person believes that he can eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 The person who eats must not despise the person who does not eat, and the person who does not eat must not criticize the person who eats, for God has accepted him.
4 Who are you to criticize someone else's servant? His own Lord will determine whether he stands or falls. And stand he will, because God is able to make him stand. 5 One person decides that one day is better than another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God." 12 Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore, let us no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in and of itself. But it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean. 15 For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom Christ died by what you eat. 16 Do not allow your good to be spoken of as evil. 17 For God's kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
18 For the person who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people. 19 Therefore, let us keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building one another up. 20 Do not destroy God's work for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person fall because of what you eat.
21 The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble or become upset or weak. 22 As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves! 23 But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith; and anything that is not done in faith is sin.
--- End quote ---
JeffH:
>>>and the only way Im gonna read or listen to it is from Ray
JakFr0s,
Just a word of caution. Be mindful in all things regarding God's Truth. Ray is a gifted teacher and because of his willingness to spend time on his knees and countless hours of prayerful study, we're also blessed as we read and learn through his insight into Scripture, however Ray is a servant of God just as you are. We all have to be careful to remember that first and foremost - God is the Source of all Truth.
I've been reading Ray's writings for about 5 years and I've found that the most valuable thing I've learned from him is to "seek God with all my heart". Ray's writings inspire me to search for God on a level I never knew existed, but Ray is a springboard, a launchpad to assist us as we each strive to find deeper meaning in God's Word in our own lives. God will work in you to the extent you're willing, just as He works in Ray. Ray's greatest gift is his hunger to know his Creator. We should all be so blessed.
This thread reminds me of what Paul said in his letter to the Church of Corinth:
1 Corinthians 1:10-17 (KJV)
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Jeff
joyful1:
Someone may need to see "the crack in the foundation" of the organization before they are able/ready to see "the crack in the foundation" of their entire life! I say...if a book about pagan christianity is put in your path......use it to the glory of God, just like everything else! JMHO!
Gena--the warrior thingy was funny! :D
Joyce :)
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