Isa 65:17-23 What y'all say??

[winner08]

Isa:65:17-23 Speaks of a new creation. I won"t quote the whole scripture. Here are a few thing I have questions about. Isa 65:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them. They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.  22 and My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble. I know these words are of spirit and therefore it should not be taken litrally. or is this literal? These scriptures speak of real physical things. What does this say to y'all? The Lord speaks of an infant and old men sinners houses vineyards and labor. These thing sound physical to me. What you say??

                                                     Thanks,

                                                       Darren

[Stevernator]

I'm not sure but what popped up in my mind was Jesus' kingdom that He will establish.

[winner08]

I also believe God is talking about His Kingdom on earth. But is this scripture used as a metaphor as to what the Kingdom will be like. If so it is still hard for me to understand. The lord speaking about people being in a physical condition, working in vineyards and living in something like homes. children living to an ripe old age Things of this nature.

                               Darren

[David]

These scriptures seem to be a witness to Rev 21.

[Kat]

Hi Darren,

Verse 17 tells us when this is.

Isa 65:17  "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
       And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

As David said it is the same setting as Rev. 21;

Rev 21:1  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

So this is speaking about the kingdom coming to the earth when Jesus Christ returns.  But only the Elect Will be in spiritual New Jerusalem, there will be the whole physical world too.

I think these Scriptures are speaking of the way things will be at that time, both spiritually and physically.

Isa 65:20  "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
       Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
       For the child shall die one hundred years old,
       But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

This verse is interesting, because we know "there shall be no more death" (Rev 21:4), as in physical dying.  Babies will not die, nor someone who is old shall not die, they will fulfill their days, how?  "For the child shall die one hundred years old,"  they will die spiritually to their carnal ways.  If they are not overcoming... "But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed."

Isa 65:22  They shall not build and another inhabit;
       They shall not plant and another eat;

Maybe what this verse is saying is that in this world the poorer people work for the rich people and build them beautiful houses and such.  But at that time, when Christ rules the world, things will be different.  I think Christ will turn the tables on the rich, those who have lived their lives in wealth and decadence being served by those who are less fortunate. 

Luke 14:11  For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

When Christ rules people will not be subservient to the wealthy, because...

Isa 65:23  They shall not labor in vain,
       Nor bring forth children for trouble;
       For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
       And their offspring with them.
Isa 65:24  "It shall come to pass
       That before they call, I will answer;
       And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25  The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
       The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
       And dust shall be the serpent's food.
       They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,"
       Says the LORD.

This is just what I am seeing in these verses.  Hope it will be helpful to you in your studies 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[AK4]

I can only give you my humble opinion on this here, but having said that I believe it is a good topic to put up on the General Discussion board for more insightful opinions for there is greater wisdom in numbers. I am a newbie like yourself brother and would not like to mislead you.

But having said that I will give you my opinion and my opinion only and not fact, of what I read into Isa.65: 17-23. Ray tells us that the whole Bible is a mix of symbols, allegories, parables and the like. Well I believe that, and apply that principle to everything I read in my Bible. I see in Isa.65:17-23 one giant parable. The key, I believe, is in the opening two verses; "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. "But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness."  (Isa.65:17-18).

Now for one to rejoice and be glad FOREVER tells me that that person has to be spirit and immortal. The rest is just a summing up of past times of trials of which there will be no memory. "And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying. "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed. "They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit. "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands. "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the Lord, And their descendants with them."   (Isa.65:19-23).

Verses 19 to 23 are speaking of things of this world in the flesh/carnal/physical which have now passed away and deleted from memory. You will eat the fruit of your own labour, that is, you won't be an employee who flogs his guts out in the field all day producing a crop of fruit for some fat slob sat in the comfort of his home to eat which is what happens here in this life. It is a beautiful picture that Isaiah paints.

That's the way I see it brother, but don't take my word for it post it and this my response on the General Board and get some more insights into it. That would be my advice to you. I hope it is of some help in any case.

Roy, i pasted what you said in the thread in here because i think this will help others too.  i hope you don"t mind.

Here's my (Anthony) humble opinion:

65:17
"Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."

I sort of remember in one of Rays papers him saying that heavens would be like a state of mind (i think, paraphrasing).  So if that is the case it would be like a new earth (people who are converted) and heavens because their minds would also be in heaven with Christ.  Everything will so good that the old  things wont even come to their mind and that takes away all the weeping and stuff.

65:21
They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. 65:22 No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. 65:23 They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the Lord, they and their descendants with them.

Maybe the houses they are building is a house they are building on the Rock this time instead of the sand and the Word will be planted by his elect ones helping ministering his word so then they be able to eat their fruit (more knowledge of Him) and live the life as long as trees (I think about that (the tree) like this.  Back in those days people would have thought trees lived for ever, especially if someone was taking good care of one.  Or another way is--- remember in one of Rays papers he said that trees symbolized the elect.  (the trees in Rev along side the water of Life giving off their fruit to help heal the nations)  (paraphrasing the bible and Ray).  Therefore the elect will not labor in vain and will always enjoy their work. (how many of us love sharing the Word).  I wish i had esword with me to help back up what I'm saying, but then again i may be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base.

This is just my humble speculation

Anthony

[Roy Monis]

Hi! Anthony

You did right brother, as I asked you to do because there is more to be learned from greater numbers.

Thank you.

God bless you brother in our joint walk in Christ. 

Love in Christ Jesus.

Roy UK