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Faith
Falgn0n:
Hi all.
I am not new to the forum, just haven't been around in a while. :). I have a question about faith.... "How does it work?" Let me try to clarify the question....
While i was part of the "othodox" (charismatic) christian church, we were taught that you were given a measure of faith (Rom 12:3) and we were told that we excercise our faith through affirmation, belief and sometimes through an act (such as the man that was told to go and wash seven times in the river to have his sight restored - his act "proved his faith" and he had the thing he believed he could have, in this case - his sight)
Now, of course, i have come to understand that it is all spiritual - everything that Jesus did for people on a physical level, he meant for his disciples to do on a spiritual level (like opening the eyes of the spiritually blind.) "Greater things than these"
but my question has to do with how we handle this issue of "faith" in our day to day lives - I understand that i completely rely on Him and Him alone for my salvation, but what of goals and aspirations in this life? what about crises and difficulties in this life?
I also understand that we continue to trust in Him and believe in Him IN SPITE of our sufferings and tribulations... ("though He slay me, yet will i trust in Him") .... but my question has to do with TEMPORAL things.
Is there a "faith" to believe that he will supply the needs of my family (for example) when a financial crisis hits us? Is there faith to believe Him for a deliverance from a persistent emotional problem that hampers normal family life? (like anxiety or stress)
Or do we just remain in a state of inertia and let Him carry us along, to "whatever end"?
I remember reading in one of Ray's teachings about how prayer is only real when it is initiated by the Holy Spirit Himself - God will Himself bring us to our knees in prayer and petition, there is literally nothing we can do of ourselves ("...apart from Him we can do nothing...")
So then, what is the nature and purpose of 'Faith' where it concerns our natural lives, earthly concerns and responsibilties? And how do we apply it?
Thanks for your patience with me ;)
Falgn0n
OBrenda:
Hi Falgn0n
I aslo came out of a Charismatic Church. Although they don't put it this way, nor did we comprehend their theroy clearly......."God is not a Sugar Dady" nor a "Magic Genie" in which we are to optain all our desires from if we only have strong faith. This is also where I believe springs another theory that if people are sick, or are in crisis, it is the person fault.
I think the aspect you are trying to grasp is,...is it O.K. to want something?......Is there a "faith" to believe that he will supply the needs of my family (for example) when a financial crisis hits us? Is there faith to believe Him for a deliverance from a persistent emotional problem that hampers normal family life? (like anxiety or stress)
Or do we just remain in a state of inertia and let Him carry us along, to "whatever end"?
I don't believe we just remain in a state of inertia,
We pray with Faith, and Honesty, and Reverance......Just as Jesus did on the Cross.
1. Jesus has more faith than any of us!
2. He didn't deny his suffering and cried out "Please take this cup from me"
3. He prayed and acceptet the Will of God before his own.
I think we Should pray for what we disire to be delivered out of, like emotional problems of our family!
The part of us applying our faith to it, is beleiving no matter how long we suffer with these things, God has a purpose that will eventualy come to "Good". (This is not easy by any means)
My personal experience when I reach the point of "Complete Surrender" in a matter,
which means...I am no longer in my "Flesh" or my "Will"... resistant to what "IS"
Then even if the issue is unresolved in a Loved One, I rest in His peace, and no longer react to the drama, but walk in faith! This usually wavers if we forget and focus on the storm, and stop looking at Jesus who is standing upon the sea holding his arm out to us. Be comforted that even if we do subcum to the distraction, he is able and willing to lift us back out!
Don't be suprised by the firey trail, understand that God is Purging the chauff from our lives, not just
because we don't have Faith or have Sinned, (everyone sins) But because you are Called!
Hope this helps,
Brenda
Kat:
Hi Falgn0n,
I'm glad you have returned to the forum :)
Here are a couple of emails that may help with your question.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1710.0.html -------
Faith is the assurance that God's Word is Truth and that God will do all that He has promised. This assurance (faith) is a GIFT of God and cannot be obtained by any human endeavor (Eph. 2:8-9). Reading and hearing the Scriptures can increase your faith, BUT ONLY BECAUSE GOD SUPERNATURALLY GIVES YOU THAT FAITH AND ASSURANCE, as you read and hear. Through faith you will both know God's will and live God's will. You must go to God for faith--there is no other source of true spiritual faith and assurance of God's trustworthiness.
God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3096.0.html --------
ABSOLUTELY, there are things you "must do," Roy, but don't think for I second that it is YOU who are going to ORIGINATE all of that "doing." Yes, we MUST live by faith and not sight as Paul admonishes us, but how do we do that, where does that faith come from, etc., etc., etc?
It is ALL OF GOD. Faith to believe God, to believe in God, to believe His Word, must come FROM GOD (Eph. 2:08). It is a GIFT from God. We don't choose Christ, but rather He chooses us (John 15:16), and we do not come to Christ, but rather the Father drags us (John 6:44). And we do not produce spiritual fruit. Our spiritual fruit comes from another source than ourselves, it is the "fruit OF THE SPIRIT," that's the source.
So, is there something you can or must do now, or "next" as you say in order to ensure your calling and salvation, that you can or must do independent of God? No, of course not. It is all of God. All that you either do or don't do is based on the foreknowledge of God's sovereignty. God will make you sweat bullets before He is done with you, and you will think many times that if YOU don't come up with a solution, you will utterly fail, but in the final analysis, it will be God Who provided the solution THROUGH your bullet sweating.
Don't become discouraged in well-doing, for God will have the victory in you eventually.
God be with you,
Ray
Falgn0n:
Thanks for the replies, you guys.... ::)
"Faith is the assurance that God's Word is Truth and that God will do all that He has promised."
Well, what has He promised? what can i believe Him for
My problem is with the idea that we have no free will, that all things are ordained of God and that nothing is ever outside of His Will.
So, whatever I am going through, or whatever desires I have in my heart, or whatever fears or expectations I have (both of good and of ill) are all the product of His sovereignty over me... What room is there then for petitioning Him, or asking Him for anything (be it provision or deliverance or guidance or whatever) ... He has already pre-ordained what will be in my life tomorrow, what I'm going through now and what the end of it all will be.
I find myself completely inert, and totally unable to find any hope in this life - all I do now, is sort of "hang on" and hope for the best - there is no way for me to know what the end of a matter will be, what the purpose if my trial is, there is no point in pleading with God for understanding, either.
He will bring about an "enlightenment" of sorts to reveal His plan to me, or He will not. He will bring healing and restoration into my life, or He will not. I will overcome persistent sins and problems, or I will not. I will be converted, or I will not.
All of these things will be by His own volition, and not mine...
The result of this, for me, is a feeling of "pointlessness" and almost, "hopelessness" as well.
The Bible is full of admonishments to pray and seek and do and change this or change that - but none of these things will ever take place anyway, unless God Himself has arranged for it to take place in my life. Think of the sermon on the mount, think about lust and murder and any of the rest of Jesus' commandments (the "One" in particular: "If you love me you will obey my commandments") - it is not possible for us to "decide" and "choose" to obey His commandments, it is not even possible for us to "Love" Him.... Not unless He first PLACES the Love within us and that in turn produces the ability and desire to obey His commandments (in fact, we will probably not even fully realise that it's happening, it will be as effortless as breathing, it will be our nature) - My point is this:
He is Sovereign over every detail of my life (right?) all that I am and do is by His design, how then can I think that I have the power to, through faith or prayer or whatever other means I can think of, change things in my life (wether physical, financial or spiritual)?
Falgn0n
Kent:
--- Quote ---I find myself completely inert, and totally unable to find any hope in this life - all I do now, is sort of "hang on" and hope for the best - there is no way for me to know what the end of a matter will be, what the purpose if my trial is, there is no point in pleading with God for understanding, either.
--- End quote ---
Not knowing what the end of the matter will be is, IMO, part of the spice of life. Who wants to go around knowing everything that will happen to them? Where is the challenge of that?
--- Quote ---He will bring about an "enlightenment" of sorts to reveal His plan to me, or He will not. He will bring healing and restoration into my life, or He will not. I will overcome persistent sins and problems, or I will not. I will be converted, or I will not.
All of these things will be by His own volition, and not mine...
The result of this, for me, is a feeling of "pointlessness" and almost, "hopelessness" as well.
--- End quote ---
Who among us knows what Gods' plan is for us? Anyone have it mapped out for them? Anyone? We just live it out as He sets it up for us. He knows the end, but we dont. Personally, as rough as things get sometimes, I don't think I want to know what will happen. To know it would make life really boring, if safer. Speaking for myself, I just have the faith to believe God will do things for His purposes and that it is done for my ultimate good, as much as I hate going through it sometimes.
I know what you mean, though, and I'd like to encourage you, but truthfully, I don't know how without making light of what may be a serious situation you are facing.
Maybe just a heartfelt prayer "God, I need some help here"?
JMO, .02, etc.
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