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John 1:1-5
Roy Monis:
Hi! Everybody
Has Ray at any time addressed the above Scripture anywhere. If so could you please let me have the link? It concerns the Deity of Jesus Christ. It is preying on my mind since one of my previous posts died a natural death.
I am reminded here of; “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (Matt.7:13-14), which is a lonely and difficult road.
Thank you.
God bless you brothers and sisters in our joint walk in Christ.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
AK4:
Hi Roy,
Yes he did, Try Who is Jesus and Who is the Father i think its in there, but dont quote me on that. Also try these scriptures.
Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Romans 1:19-32
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; F6 for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so F7 that they are without excuse:
Col 2:8-10
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments F8 of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
In Jesus
Anthony
Samarnon:
Hi Roy,
I think the Trinity paper of L.Ray has it in "Who and What is Jesus Christ?"
God bless brother,
Joy
Kat:
Hi Roy,
This is from the 2006 Mobile Bible Conference, part 2 HOW DID JESUS DO “THE FATHER’S WILL” Hope this helps :)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3633.msg27126.html#msg27126 ---
1Cor 8:6 but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.
Is Jesus Christ something? Yes. What is He? He’s of God.
All is of Him, of the One God. All is of Him, Jesus Christ is of Him. It interesting that Jesus Christ is called the Firstfruit in 1 Cor --
1Cor 15:20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the Firstfruit of those who slept.
In Gene. 1:1 it says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
But that’s not the way that word (beginning) is translated in most places in the Bible. Let’s step back a second, lets decide who created the heaven and the earth, ok.
In John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
A guy argued with me for 3 months, back and forth, telling me that was the Father,
“In the beginning was the Word.”
The right order of the words in the linear is, ‘and God was the word.’
“ and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning WITH God.”
Now it’s pretty hard for something that is something, to be with itself, see what I’m saying, that don’t quite work grammatically, does it.
In John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”
So whatever this Word was, He made everything, everything was made by Him.
v. 4 “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.”
What is light? This light that shines in darkness, what was this light? It was the Word.
What did the Word do? It made all things and nothing was made that He didn’t make.
v. 6 “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
v. 7 “He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe through Him.”
v. 8 “He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the Light.”
v. 9 “That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world.”
v. 10 “He was in the world and the world was made by Him.”
We just read that He was in the world and the world was made by Him.
It repeats it (verse 3 and 10). And the world knew Him not.
v. 11 “He came to His own, and His own received Him not.”
v. 12 “But as many as received Him, He gave to them power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His name,”
v. 13 “which are born(begotten) not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.”
v.14 “And the Word made flesh, and dwelt among us with the glory of the only begotten of the Father,
full of grace and of truth.”
v.15 “John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, This was He of whom I spoke:
He who comes after me has been before me, for He was preceding me.”
v.16 “And out of His fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.”
v.17 “For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
Who is this Word, who is as with the Father, who was with God, who made all things,
who was the light of men, who was made flesh, who dwelt among men,
who was the only begotten of the Father? JESUS CHRIST !
v. 18 “No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,
He has declared Him.”
In the bosom of the Father, That means a close intimate relationship,
He(Jesus Christ) has declared Him(the Father).
Nobody has ever known anything about God the Father, except through Jesus Christ. Before the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem, nobody on the face of the earth, ever knew anything about God the Father.
But didn’t they know about God(in the OT)? That was Jesus Christ.
----------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Roy Monis:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 14, 2008, 06:57:56 PM ---
Hi Roy,
This is from the 2006 Mobile Bible Conference, part 2 HOW DID JESUS DO “THE FATHER’S WILL” Hope this helps :)
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3633.msg27126.html#msg27126 ---
1Cor 8:6 but there is to us only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we by Him.
Is Jesus Christ something? Yes. What is He? He’s of God.
All is of Him, of the One God. All is of Him, Jesus Christ is of Him. It interesting that Jesus Christ is called the Firstfruit in 1 Cor --
1Cor 15:20 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the Firstfruit of those who slept.
In Gene. 1:1 it says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
But that’s not the way that word (beginning) is translated in most places in the Bible. Let’s step back a second, lets decide who created the heaven and the earth, ok.
In John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
A guy argued with me for 3 months, back and forth, telling me that was the Father,
“In the beginning was the Word.”
The right order of the words in the linear is, ‘and God was the word.’
“ and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning WITH God.”
Now it’s pretty hard for something that is something, to be with itself, see what I’m saying, that don’t quite work grammatically, does it.
In John 1:3 “All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”
So whatever this Word was, He made everything, everything was made by Him.
v. 4 “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.”
What is light? This light that shines in darkness, what was this light? It was the Word.
What did the Word do? It made all things and nothing was made that He didn’t make.
v. 6 “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.”
v. 7 “He came as a witness, to bear witness about the Light, that all might believe through Him.”
v. 8 “He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the Light.”
v. 9 “That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world.”
v. 10 “He was in the world and the world was made by Him.”
We just read that He was in the world and the world was made by Him.
It repeats it (verse 3 and 10). And the world knew Him not.
v. 11 “He came to His own, and His own received Him not.”
v. 12 “But as many as received Him, He gave to them power to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His name,”
v. 13 “which are born(begotten) not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.”
v.14 “And the Word made flesh, and dwelt among us with the glory of the only begotten of the Father,
full of grace and of truth.”
v.15 “John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, This was He of whom I spoke:
He who comes after me has been before me, for He was preceding me.”
v.16 “And out of His fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.”
v.17 “For the Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
Who is this Word, who is as with the Father, who was with God, who made all things,
who was the light of men, who was made flesh, who dwelt among men,
who was the only begotten of the Father? JESUS CHRIST !
v. 18 “No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father,
He has declared Him.”
In the bosom of the Father, That means a close intimate relationship,
He(Jesus Christ) has declared Him(the Father).
Nobody has ever known anything about God the Father, except through Jesus Christ. Before the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem, nobody on the face of the earth, ever knew anything about God the Father.
But didn’t they know about God(in the OT)? That was Jesus Christ.
----------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
###########################
Hi! Kath
Thanks for your response.
1Cor.8:6 No problem there at all. All things are through Him including Jesus Christ the Lord, through whom are all things including mankind. I know all that and it’s perfectly acceptable.
Is Jesus Christ something? What is He? He is of God. Now here we have gone of track a bit. What is He – He is not of God, He is God. That’s what I understand John 1:1 to be saying. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”
Now you’ve gone off at a tangent to 1Cor.15:20. Let's stick with this for now. We‘re not up to that yet as we’ve only just established that the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God, in His Bosom, not created. “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” (John 1:18).
Now let us take Gen.1:1 ---"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". Here then we have the Only Begotten Son who has come forth (born of, given birth to) out of the Father. There is no Scripture that I can find to say He was created. He is the Creator commissioned by the Father to create. If Christ was created we would be worshipping a creature and not the Creator.
As far as 1Cor.15:20 which comes into the picture quite a long time later, yes, He is the First Fruit of those who slept, now as Jesus Christ the Word and acclaimed by the Father; “….that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.’” (Acts 13:33).
There are a plethora of Scriptures to say that the Father Begat the Son/Word but none to say that He created Him.
This is what is worrying me and I can’t follow it. The God that spoke with Moses and Abraham in the wilderness was Jesus Christ and He announced that He was God. This is the same Jesus Christ we are talking about here so if He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob how could He have been created. If He was created He'd be no different to an angel, archangel or them for that matter, all created beings.
Everything else that you have said is perfectly clear and understandable, the only sticking point is the distinguishing between the meaning of the words Begotten and created.
At the moment this is how I see it and can’t see any other alternative. Perhaps I’ve missed something on which you could throw some light?
God bless you sister in our joint walk in Christ and sorry for the trouble.
Love in Christ Jesus.
Roy UK
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