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To pastor Tony Smith at thewayofgodchurch.com

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tebza4jesus:
Dear Bradigans,

Receive my follow-up letter. Maybe we can call it "The Second Letter from Tebogo to Bradford" as in "Paul's Letter to..." LOL!

Seriously now, let's look at three things of which you mentioned that you are not in cahoots with me on.

You say,
--- Quote ---I don't believe what you're saying has a real scriptural basis. I'm not certain that God brought us together,and whether or not HE will keep us together is up to HIM.Succinctly, i would like to say, "our lust brought us together with no regard to what God thought." We didn't pray on it, because those so many years ago we were set on having sex with one another. Then she got pregnant, and then there's that bond. Then she got pregnant again, and again, and it's been usually at a time when I've mustered up my courage to leave. But, I love these kids so muuuch!!! I believe the love i have for her also is the same i have for these kids. It's a deep, deep concern; a sacrificial, I'm willing to make, concern. I've died many times for her in killing my own feeling in what i really wanted to do. Whether or not God will bless this union, I'm not certain. I'm open to whatever HIS holy will may be. Like I say, we started off in lust fulfilling fleshly desires. Remember, God SPIRIT thrives in and through love.

However God leads, we're both set on following; whether it's apart or staying together. It'll have to be by HIS SPIRIT.

--- End quote ---



--- Quote --- We both admit that we didn't love each other at the time. We were relating through the spirit of lust to satisfy fleshly urges and itches. We both could care less what God thought at that time.
--- End quote ---

Why are you doubting that God has brought you and your wife together? It appears to me, that the problem is in "how you came together". Am I right?
Why is that? Is it because the way you came together is not the way YOU consider RIGHT? NB God's ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are not ours.

Consider God's way of bringing Joseph to Egypt, or His way of bringing Christ unto the hands of His enemies? Do you have any doubt that these ways were God's ways even though both the brothers of Joseph and Judas did not do what they did for God? Like you and wife, they did not pray about it, or had any regard for what God thought. Their intentions were EVIL but they did God's will, nevertheless.

You and your wife may have been motivated by EVIL. Who hasn't? I know I have been and still do, but the LORD WILL save me, no doubt about that.

Consider the children-factor. Was it per chance that she got pregnant? Since indeed, everything happens for a reason, then your wife falling pregnant, happened for a reason. Have you thought about that reason or asked God, why? Those children and the love you have for them, are all God's gifts unto you for all good gifts (like love and children) all come from above, from our Father.

Those children are no mistake. Consider the timing of your wife's falling pregnant, for you yourself say, she fell pregnant at the time when you mustered up courage to leave her. I don't know, but it sounds to me as if, her falling pregnant served a good job of keeping you with her. Could it be God's way of doing things? 

You are right when you say, whether God will keep you together or not, is up to Him. Indeed, it's all up to Him. Why shouldn't it be, since He is the one who brought you together?

Let me ask you something. Why do you want to give unto God the responsibility of keeping you together or not, while you don't agree that He brought you together? Are you saying that God can keep you together while He did not bring you together? Listen to yourself, man. God started this, and He will end it. It's all up to Him for HE IS IN CHARGE?

David and Bathsheba did not come together in the "right" way, but their affair produced Solomon, whom the LORD called JEDIDIAH, that is, beloved by GOD. What do you make of that?

Know this. It's not so much how things begun but how they end, which matters the most before the LORD. Everything works together for good.

You started off on the wrong footing, but all's well that ends well, and with God, all will end well.

You say, you open to God's will and you seek to be led by His Spirit. Wise words, but may it be followed by actions. Stick with your wife until the LORD says otherwise.

The day, you come and say, God told you to levae your wife, I will be first man to step aside and allow you to leave your wife. But as long as you say "I am not certain..." I will continue to urge to stick with your wife.

Secondly, you say,


--- Quote --- Well, I'm not a sinner. How can I be? There are no charges to or against a bona fide believer.
--- End quote ---

I don't think there's any need for me to say much concerning this, accept:
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

Lastly you say,


--- Quote ---I don't believe a woman (a wife) can be submissive to a man (her husband) until he's willing to be submissive to her and to love her.I may be the problem in our relationship. 

I believe the love of a man opens up the love of a woman. A man has to be willing to die for the woman he loves like Christ died for HIS CHURCH BRIDE. That's what opens her up to serve and to be submissive. Are you willing to submit yourself because submission starts at the head. Look at what Christ did for his bride. Remember also that Jesus washed the disciples feet. You can't serve HIM if HE hasn't served you first.
--- End quote ---


I have absolutely no problem with this. This is the TRUTH. I am surprised that you actually misunderstood me to think contrary to this. All I was trying to show you is what we want (e.g A submissive wife) because in your first letter you mentioned your wife just not willing to submit to you (unless if I am the one who misunderstood you).

Yes, my brother, LOVE your wife and she will have no problem submitting to you. And yes, it starts with you - the head. You, indeed, may be problem in this marriage. If that be the case, take charge, and be to your wife, as Christ is to the church.

That's enough from me, Bradford. I hope I have clarified everything.

I repeat my self: DO NOT WALK AWAY FROM YOUR WIFE UNLESS THE LORD SAYS SO. Ps And beware false spirits!

With love,
tebza4jesus





 

faith2faith:
Hi bradford!!!

I Quote you!
(Well, I'm not a sinner. How can I be? There are no charges to or against a bona fide believer ???)

I understand where you are coming from with that, because of what Jesus Did for all mankind at
the cross in the shedding of his blood, that brings us into right standing with him, justified, meaning not guilty
and in these bodies we are dead to sin but alive to God and unto christ Jesus, however if we do sin, we have
the Gift of repentence and can boldly come before God to obtain grace and mercy and we also have Jesus seated
at the right hand of God interceeding, mediating and avocating on our behalf.

Romans 8:1). there is now no condemnation for those who are in christ.

Romans 6:3). Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into christ Jesus
                   were baptized into his Death.

How can anyone go on claiming he is a sinner, or have you not died to the sinful nature?
If we have been baptized into his death and buried with him through baptism into his death
then is not the sinful nature crucified ???

Why are we taught on here to keep confessing we are sinners, if that is the case christ died
and has suffered for nothing, ( if anyone has ears to here then let him here what the spirit is saying).

Romans 6:5-8). if we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also  be united
                       with him in his resurrection. for we know that our old self was crucified with him so that
                       the Body of sin....(your body the tent you live in..carnal..flesh..) might be done away with
                       that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
                       because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with christ, we
                       believe that we will also live with him....made alive...spiritually..like now!!
 
isn't the result of sin "death".....and to claim that i am a sinner means, sin still reigns..lives in my body..nature..flesh. ???
if i then keep claiming i am a sinner then i still stand condeemed-Guilty.....so someone tell me what has the death of christ
benefit to us who are still confessing we are sinners and Guilty of the Book of the law.....are we not saved by grace....
pronounced not guilty....or am i getting a teaching that puts a yoke back on me!!!

Romans 6:14). For Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but grace!

If anyone is led by the Holy Spirit to rebuke me on these matters then, Here am i, await my correction and discipline.
I will discern in the Spirit if it's done out of carnal anger... or the love of God...I won't be offened but only love you
for it...so if i am wrong....then show me my fault....but the leading of the Holy Spirit has to be witnessing to you to
Bring correction and rebuke!!!

grace,mercy,peace.
trish. 


                           

Kat:

Hi Trish,


--- Quote ---How can anyone go on claiming he is a sinner, or have you not died to the sinful nature?
--- End quote ---

It is my understanding that this is a process that we will spend the rest of our lives striving for, perfection.  Overcoming sin is part of the process that prepares us to serve with Him, if we should be in the first resurrection. We will only reach that perfect sinless state when we are actually born into His kingdom.
Here is an email on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html ------

You say we have to have sin out of our lives to be the chosen, does God make us perfect through Christ? can you show me through scripture that that is not just positionally but in behavior also.
 
COMMENT:  No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh.  One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin.  It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

  It says in James that God's seed can't sin, can the new man/creature sin? isn't that part of us perfect? do we have God's seed? what is that seed?
 
COMMENT:  There are a lot of unscriptural phrases in that set of questions that are difficult to answer as asked.
Actually, the Scripture you are trying to reference is found in I John 3:9, not in James' epistle:

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten."  The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration.  Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection.  Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind."  None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).

There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

This is way to big a subject to cover in an email, but I hope this has been helpful to you. Read all the material on our site. Especially read the first paper at the top of our Home Page:  "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!"  This is must reading if you are to understand our walk with God.

God be with you,

Ray

James:
Quoting tamj;  "have you not died to the sinful nature?
If we have been baptized into his death and buried with him through baptism into his death
then is not the sinful nature crucified Huh    Why are we taught on here to keep confessing we are sinners, if that is the case christ died and has suffered for nothing" - end quote.


As a newer member on BT, I'd like to Q/observe.  Hopefully there's an emphasis and recognition of Jesus' calling and choosing being the process of the Holy Spirit convicting each individual (albeit "in their own order", some now, all later) of our need for repentance from sin and personally trusting in Jesus to save us.  The truths of "behold I stand at the door and knock, if any man hear my voice...", "whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved", "...become a new creature, all things BECOMING new (process of salvation begun)", bottom line being that when Jesus calls, IMO we each know it, because the Holy Spirit gets our attention and gives us the faith to believe...granted, the process of our perfection continues and won't be complete until we are raised incorruptible....but aren't those things compatible with each other?  Conviction/faith to believe (getting "saved"/justification), as well as the ongoing/future process of refinement unto perfection and immortality?  I hope I'm not out of line when I say "Jesus saves" :). 

God's blessing, James.

mharrell08:
Great comment James  ;)


Marques

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