Here is a good question to Ray from someone

[AK4]

HEY MR.SMITH MY NAME IS SGT ____. AND I AM CURENTLY IN IRAQ RIGHT NOW I'M DOING
> OK. I WILL BE HERE FOR A WHILE THOUGH BUT ANYWAYS I STUMBLED ON YOUR SITE WHILE
> OVER HERE AND STARTED TO READ AND THE THINGS THAT YOU MENTION AND TALK ABOUT ARE  JUST SO UNBELIEVABLE. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES AND UNDERSTANDING


> TO THESE "BIBLE TRUTHS". I HAVE BEEN DOIN MY OWN RESEARCH AS WELL AND I HAVE A
> COUPLE OF QUESTION ACTUALLY FIRST BEING. HOW DO YOU NORMALLY GO ABOUT YOUR
> RESEARCH MAYBE YOU CAN GIVE ME SOME IDEAS TO HELP ME GO ABOUT MINE. SECOND
> QUESTION IS FROM WHAT I READ ON YOUR SITE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD ARE
> RESURECTED AND THE 1ST RESERECTION. EVERYONE ELSE IS RESERECTED AT THE SECOND
> RESERECTION. BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PEOPLE ON EARTH THAT ARE STILL ALIVE THAT
> DID NOT OR DO NOT BELIEVE AFTER THE FIRST RESERECTION ALREADY TOOK PLACE? DO
> THEY ALL EVENTUALLY DIE T HEN COMES THE SECOND RESERECTION? IF YOU CAN
> UNDERSTAND MY QUESTION. BASICLY WHAT IS THE ORDER OF EVENTS THAT WILL HAPPEN   TO  GOD'S CHOSEN AND THE SINNERS BOTH DEAD AND ALIVE? I HOPE THAT SOUNDS BETTER
> WELL THANKS FOR YOU TIME. HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON.


Dear Sgt. :  I mostly ask God to show me His truths as I read the Scriptures. Most of the time my mind is opened to a specific truth, which I then explain from those Scriptures themselves. Also, I often go to my Concordance and different translations to help verify for my readers, that which I see is truly Scriptural. I have a dozen different translations, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Wigram's Englishman's Greek and Hebrew Concordance, a Bible dictionary, and that's about it. I have "e-Sword" on my computer for quick location of any word in the Bible.  I do not learn what I teach out of books. But I do use books often to help verify what God is showing me.

As for your question on the resurrections and the purpose for humanity during Christ's reign, etc., I will have to pass on that one. It may sound like a simple question, but let me assure you, it is not. I know of no religion or writings on earth that can explain correctly what you are asking. I will be writing on this in the future, but not today, as it would take days to answer that question properly for you, and as I receive tens of thousands of emails, it just isn't possible. Hope you understand.
God be with you, and may God look after you in your mission in Iraq.
Ray

Since Ray didnt answer his question, anybody have an answer?

[OBrenda]

I wouldn't be able to give answer, but I'm anxious to read what Ray has to say!

Brenda

[lilitalienboi16]

Their is no "second" ressurection, i'm fairly certain this is not in the oldest of greek manuscripts and ray actualy mentioned saying he had prayed about this for many nights unable to reconcile the thought, but now he understands. Their is one ressurection.

God bless,

Alex

[Kat]

Hi Alex,

Here is what you were referring to that Ray mentioned from the 2007 conference.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html -----

Now for the last few years I've been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things.  I haven't written to much about that yet.  You know why?  Because I don't understand it!  But now I'm getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why.  Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don't have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they don't even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  ...And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that won't work and I can't make it work.  It doesn't fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished" won't fit.  It's not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
It's not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now we're moving again.  We're a little closer to the Truth. 
-------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[winner08]

Wait a minute. I am really confused now. I always thought that the elect would be in the first resurrection. Then they would be with Christ through the thousand yrs. They would help Christ set up His government here on earth. Then the great white throne judgment would come. All that that was not in the 1st resurrection would be in this resurrection Wait it just came to me Could it be that everybody will be raised at one time then those who are found to be the elect would go in one direction and rule with Christ for a thousand yrs. then the rest that are left would be thrown into the lake of fire and all the carnilty of man will be purged from us, all of our human nature ,all of our sins, our evil thoughts, our evil hearts.  So no there wouldn't be a second resurrection. The Great White Throne Judgment wouldd come after the 1000 yrs. Depending on how many stripes we are to recieve is how long we will be in that LOF. Each man will recieve his stripes according to what he has done

                                                       Darren

[AK4]

There is this one guys writing on this subject that i read that might be pretty much on it.  I've read everything on his site too and he's a pretty sound guy.  Not quite on the same level with Ray (i've never read anyone up there with Ray), some slight differences, but almost everything the same at least when it comes to eternal torment (hell).  His name is Gerry Watts.  He writes on first & second resurrection and what he thinks 1000 yrs means.

I would have to read his stuff again to see how sound he is now, knowing what i think i know.  Look him up.

[Kat]

Hi Anthony,

I glanced over his articles and as far as I could tell all that Gerry Watts and Ray have in common are universal reconciliation.

Darren, I think your getting it.  But "the judgment" comes at the resurrection of the dead.  The Elect will be raised first, as for the "first" resurrection.

Rev 19:11  Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12  His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13  He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14  And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (spurious). This is the first resurrection.
v.6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years (figurative number).

The Elect will return with Christ first, as in verse 4 they will be there when the rest are raised and judged as "judgment was committed to them."  Then comes the resurrection of the dead/white throne judgment. 

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v.12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

What I see is there is this order, but I think that all this will probably happen rapidly and prehaps on the same day.  Can't say what happens next and this is my opinion, I hope it helps 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[AK4]

Hi Anthony,

I glanced over his articles and as far as I could tell all that Gerry Watts and Ray have in common are universal reconciliation.

You're right Kat, i glanced over his stuff again and thats about all they have in common.  Rays insight is on a much higher plane.

but heres my question Kat

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (spurious). This is the first resurrection.
v.6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years (figurative number).

This verse isn't supposed to be here?  And since the book of Revelations is a book of symbols could it be that we shouldnt take the word resurrection in these verses literally,  but that it means something even higher that what it is/stands for?

In Jesus,

Anthony

[AK4]

Hi all,

I will leave the revelations to Ray but i just wondered what you think.

Since Satan is the prince of the power of the air (Eph 2:2) and he will be dethroned and bound or thrown down into the Abyss (Rev20:1-4) and When Christ returns and we will meet Him and the resurrected saints in the air (1Th 4:17)  (air--literaly or figuratively? Could this mean that are minds and eyes are completely opened (in heaven) where the principalities and powers and thrones are(Eph 3:10, 6:12 and Col 1:16).  Therefore we will sit on "thrones" and riegn with Christ and judge and heal the nations for the 1000 yrs (an eon/age?)(Rev 20:4)

If this was the scenario wouldnt it be just one resurrection because if all the people who get raised in the first resurrection are now Holy, who would be left to judge and heal if those who come up in a different resurrection are not there yet?  The Elect and the Dead in Christ will be changed with bodies like Christ probably with the ability to appear in flesh and dissapear into the spiritual the way Jesus did to the disciples after his resurrection.  In this way they will be able to help heal the nations who are now going through this LOF in there physical bodies again, on earth too.

I dont know.  This is way over my head right now.

What you guys think

 

[OBrenda]

Don't know enough about it, but somethng that stands out to me is about the saints being beheaded ?   

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

If the Beast Operates in our Mind? [Head]

[AK4]

Brenda I was wondering about that word too.  I looked it up and it means pretty much what it says.

I think it just means we died for Christ.  We overcame the beast, his mark on our hands(swearing allegance) and forehead (overcame him in our carnal-mind).

JMHO

In Jesus,

Anthony

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi Alex,

Here is what you were referring to that Ray mentioned from the 2007 conference.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.15.html -----

Now for the last few years I've been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things.  I haven't written to much about that yet.  You know why?  Because I don't understand it!  But now I'm getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why.  Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don't have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they don't even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  ...And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that won't work and I can't make it work.  It doesn't fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, "But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished" won't fit.  It's not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

-Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished
It's not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now we're moving again.  We're a little closer to the Truth. 
-------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Yup that was it, thank you kat! It makes alot more sence now understanding that their is one ressurection of the dead for saint and sinner alike