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Author Topic: Is This Ages Aions?  (Read 3406 times)

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Bob Miller

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Is This Ages Aions?
« on: May 18, 2006, 07:01:57 PM »

Does anyone know if the word AGES in the following scripture was in the Greek AIONS? Thanks for your help! "Feed The Sheep"!


Ephesians 2:7 (King James Version)

7   That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
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orion77

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2006, 07:13:12 PM »

G165
αἰών
aiōn
ahee-ohn'
From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.


G104
ἀεί
aei
ah-eye'
From an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); “ever�; by qualification regularly; by implication earnestly: - always, ever.


G5550
χρόνος
chronos
khron'-os
Of uncertain derivation; a space of time (in genitive case, and thus properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period) or interval; by extension an individual opportunity; by implication delay: - + years old, season, space, (X often-) time (-s), (a) while.


Hope this is what you are looking for.  You can download e-sword, it's very helpful.

God bless,

Gary
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Bob Miller

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2006, 05:50:35 PM »

Thanks Gary! That E-Sword program is awesome!

What a great tool! :D
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Daniel

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2006, 07:20:47 PM »

I'm glad this post is here because I have a question. I ran a search and landed on one of the threads where Ray was showing half the verse. Here I'll show you

"While we look noit at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen ARE TEMPORARY..." (II Cor. 4:18). I don't think I need to explain what "temporary" means.

God be with you,
Ray



No questions on that one, Ray was pretty much adressing this persons question. Can someone help me please? The word for eternal in this verse

1Cr 4:18 While we "look not at the things which are seen", BUT AT the things which are "not seen": for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.[/u]

If that which is seen is temporal (obviusly as Ray says). How is that which is "unseen" expressed as "eternal" defined in this verse? Is the word here different from others elsewhere?

Be patient with me, I can't find everything through the shuffle of every page :lol:  Any of you who are much more familiar with Rays site then myself, can you help me find this?

Another thought which blows my mind is that we look NOT at that which "is seen" BUT AT that which IS NOT SEEN.

What a thought! We look AT what cant be seen! Almost like SEEING Him who IS invisible. God is so good!

Any help would be apreciated from any of you. Great to be here

Daniel
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ertsky

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2006, 08:53:12 PM »

heres rotherhams

2Co 4:18 So long as we are not looking out for the visible things, but for the invisible; for, the visible things, are temporary, whereas, the invisible, are age-abiding.

and heres youngs

2Co 4:18  we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during.

the greek for eternal there is

αιωνια166 A-NPN

so yes pertaining to the age rather than eternal

f

PS: i got all that from e-Sword

Quote
What a thought! We look AT what cant be seen! Almost like SEEING Him who IS invisible. God is so good!


nice quote Daniel :)

f
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Daniel

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2006, 09:32:57 PM »

Thank you Ertsky,

Why did he not say both were temporal? Or say, that which is sseen is temporal as well as those things which are unseen? They seemed to be used in "contrast to one another", thats why I asking.

I see eternal life as knowing God as Jesus defines plainly, "That they might KNOW THEE", just as Pauls words were, "that I might KNOW HIM". Our hope of that IF I were TOLD THAT by the institutional church  :roll: I would have sooner fled to lay hold of such a possibiliity or the HOPE of THAT (eternal life). Its just been "reduced to"... well you very well know what its been reduced to :roll:  Its a lively hope, couldn't see that there though, some got it but very few.

But back to my second thought concerning what Jesus said, "THIS is eternal life or life eternal, meaning HERES WHAT IT IS :lol:  that we might KNOW THEE. Thats what it is right? To KNOW Him is to LOVE Him and to LOVE the brethren, makes sense then that NOTHING can separate us from the LOVE OF GOD in Christ Jesus.


Heres the RECORD as defined by John here

1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

If I back up, and repeat its clearer

1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.[/u]

Heres the SAME RECORD NOT BELIEVED UPON

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.  

Don't believe what RECORD?

1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may KNOW HIM that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. THIS IS the true God, and eternal life.[/u]

It abides in us, and some not yet

1John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.[/u]

To me, simply put they don't KNOW HIM,

1John 3:4 We know that we have passed from death unto life, BECAUSE we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.[/u]

Same with not believing Gods record making God a liar defines in light of this what one says and their loves defines them where they are at spiritually speaking

1John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

I'm seeing eternal life more after a knowing of God, defined by love, more then anything. But I do question the above verse concerning that which is seen being temporal verses that which is unseen being eternal. Seems like a contrasting verse though :?

Daniel
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ertsky

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2006, 09:39:23 PM »

Hi Daniel

Quote
Why did he not say both were temporal? Or say, that which is sseen is temporal as well as those things which are unseen? They seemed to be used in "contrast to one another", thats why I asking.


the things that are unseen are not temporal but neither are all of them eternal, even the kingdom is not eternal but has an end as in

1Co 15:24 Afterwards, the end—whensoever he delivereth up the kingdom unto his God and Father, whensoever he shall bring to nought all rule and all authority and power;
1Co 15:25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet:
1Co 15:26 As a last enemy, death, is to be destroyed;
1Co 15:27 For—He put, all things, in subjection under his feet. But, whensoever it shall be said—all things are in subjection!—it is evident that it means,—Except him who did put into subjection, unto him, the all things—
1Co 15:28 But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things,—that, God, may be, all things in all.

woohoo!

f
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chrissiela

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2006, 09:48:52 PM »

Daniel,

I agree with you. Eternal life is to KNOW GOD!. The scriptures clearly state this to be the case.

I also think that you are correct that "temporal" and "eternal" are in contrast, but I am not sure if you are seeing that 'contrast' the same as I am??

To me, it is like the flesh vs the spirit. The flesh profits nothing and we are to crucify the flesh and walk IN THE SPIRIT. So, to me, that which is seen (flesh) is "temporal" (would be walking after the flesh) and that which is unseen is "eternal" (walking after the spirit, which would also be 'to know God').

Does that make sense?

We pass from DEATH unto LIFE.... flesh to spirit.... temporal to "eternal"....  

Chrissie
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Daniel

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2006, 10:18:37 PM »

Thats EXACTLY what I was talking about Chrissie, I see the same thing. Afterall theres the HIDDEN MAN  :lol:  To look AT that which is unseen , (or not seen) upon the heart. That man is incorruptible. :lol:

You are very good at catching things Chrissie!

Daniiel
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Daniel

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2006, 11:47:38 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
Hi Daniel

Quote
Why did he not say both were temporal? Or say, that which is sseen is temporal as well as those things which are unseen? They seemed to be used in "contrast to one another", thats why I asking.


the things that are unseen are not temporal but neither are all of them eternal, even the kingdom is not eternal but has an end as in

1Co 15:24 Afterwards, the end—whensoever he delivereth up the kingdom unto his God and Father, whensoever he shall bring to nought all rule and all authority and power;
1Co 15:25 For he must needs reign, until he shall put all his enemies under his feet:
1Co 15:26 As a last enemy, death, is to be destroyed;
1Co 15:27 For—He put, all things, in subjection under his feet. But, whensoever it shall be said—all things are in subjection!—it is evident that it means,—Except him who did put into subjection, unto him, the all things—
1Co 15:28 But whensoever have been put into subjection, unto him, the all things, then, the Son himself, also shall be put in subjection unto him who put in subjection, unto him, the all things,—that, God, may be, all things in all.

woohoo!

f


Amen Ertsky! Our CARNAL MIND is DEATH and we were ENEMIES in our MINDS. As Ray says the CARNAL MIND is GREAT HATRED toward God. Thank GOD for the MIND OF CHRIST which is LIFE and PEACE!!!

DEATH (the carnal mind) SWALLOWED UP in LIFE (The mind of Christ). He's doing His perfect work! :wink: Being "perfected" IN LOVE, LIGHT, LIFE, no more hatred, darkness, and death when He is finished with us, God will be all in all. :D "eternal life" sounds like GOD LIFE, partaker of His divine nature, the precious incorruptible fruits of Him :D

Daniel
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Bob Miller

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2006, 09:24:42 PM »

Here Is an interesting write up on "AION and AIONIOS"

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
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Deedle

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2006, 10:32:01 PM »

Good stuff guys and gal.

When I first came to see UR it all hinged on aion and aionios meaning eon / eonian. But now that I'm seeing spirit instead of letter (praise be to God) the word aionios like all other words ("the words that I speak to you are spirit") have taken on a bit of a different meaning. That is just the way God works.

1Co 15:46  
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual

So the Lord was working with me in the natural and I did about as much research and study as a person can do on the words aion / aionios / aidios / olam. I'm glad the Lord took me through that because when speaking to the natural man you still have to show them from the scriptures that those word do not mean what our english "eternal" means. But those same "natural" explainations can lead to "death" if we don't move past them.

2Co 3:6  
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb 6:1-3  
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3  And this will we do, if God permit.

This sums it up for me.

Joh 17:3  
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

To know God and Jesus Christ!

Also just wanted note that the Son's reign is "aionios" but the Kingdom does not end.

Luk 1:33
...and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the aions. And of His kingdom there shall be no end."

One more fun fact, aion comes from the word aiw which literally means "vital force". The best book I ever read on the word was:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html

You can buy a hard copy from concordant for like 3 bucks.

Deedle  :D
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ertsky

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2006, 10:57:49 PM »

Quote
Also just wanted note that the Son's reign is "aionios" but the Kingdom does not end.

Luk 1:33
...and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the aions. And of His kingdom there shall be no end."


thanks for that correction Deedle, great stuff!

f
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chrissiela

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2006, 11:31:44 PM »

Quote from: Deedle
Joh 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

To know God and Jesus Christ!


ABSOLUTELY!!

    Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you
another Comforter, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER;  :wink:

Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18  I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:19  Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Joh 14:20  At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.  \:D/

Joh 14:21  He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:22  Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

Joh 14:23  Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.[/list:u]



Quote from: Deedle
Also just wanted note that the Son's reign is "aionios" but the Kingdom does not end.

Luk 1:33
...and He shall reign over the house of Jacob for the aions. And of His kingdom there shall be no end."


    1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end,
when he shall have DELIVERED UP THE KINGDOM to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.[/list:u]

Amen Deedle!! The reign of Christ comes to an end, but THE KINGDOM is delivered up to the Father.   [-o<  

Blessings,
Chrissie
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SteveB

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2006, 11:42:29 PM »

Good Thread.

The word aion/ios has great spiritual application inward too. We all have an aion in the flesh and thank God it comes to an end!



Quote
Amen Deedle!! The reign of Christ comes to an end, but THE KINGDOM is delivered up to the Father.  


Amen!

Peace...Steve
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Bob Miller

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Is This Ages Aions?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2006, 04:44:34 PM »

Here is some more on the topic at hand:  :D

AUTHORITIES.

  The oldest lexicographer, Hesychius, (A. D. 400-600,) definesaión thus: "The life of man, the time of life." At this early date no theologian had yet imported into the word the meaning of endless duration. It retained only the sense it had in the classics, and in the Bible.

 Theodoret(9) (A. D. 300-400) "Aión is not any existing thing, but an interval denoting time, sometimes infinite when spoken of God, sometimes proportioned to the duration of the creation, and sometimes to the life of man."

 John of Damascus (A. D. 750,) says, "1, The life of every man is called aión.  . . .  3, The whole duration or life of this world is called aión. 4, The life after the resurrection is called 'the aión to come.' "

  But in the sixteenth century Phavorinus was compelled to notice an addition, which subsequently to the time of the famous Council of 544 had been grafted on the word. He says: "Aión, time, also life, also habit, or way of life. Aión is also the eternal and endlessAS IT SEEMS TO THE THEOLOGIAN." Theologians had succeeded in using the word in the sense of endless, and Phavorinus was forced to recognize their usage of it and his phraseology shows conclusively enough that he attributed to theologians the authorship of that use of the word. Alluding to this definition, Rev. Ezra S. Goodwin, one of the ripest scholars and profoundest critics, says,(10) "Here I strongly suspect is the true secret brought to light of the origin of the sense of eternity in aión. The theologian first thought he perceived it, or else he placed it there. The theologian keeps it there, now. And the theologian will probably retain it there longer than any one else. Hence it is that those lexicographers who assign eternity as one of the meanings of aión uniformly appeal for proofs to either theological, Hebrew, or Rabbinical Greek, or some species of Greek subsequent to the age of the Seventy, if not subsequent to the age of the Apostles, so far a I can ascertain."

  The second definition by Phavorinus is extracted literally from the "Etymologicon Magnum" of the ninth or tenth century. This gives us the usage from the fourth to the sixteenth century, and shows us that, if the word meant endless at the time of Christ, it must have changed from limited duration in the classics, to unlimited duration, and then back again, at the dates above specified!

  From the sixteenth century onward, the word has been defined as used to denote all lengths of duration from brief to endless. We record here such definitions as we have found.

 Rost: (German definitions) " Aión, duration, epoch, long time, eternity, memory of man, life-time, life, age of man. Aiónios, continual, always enduring, long continued, eternal."

 Hedericus: "An age, eternity, an age a if always being; time of man's life in the memory of men, (wicked men, New Testament,) the spinal marrow. Aiónios, eternal, everlasting, continual."

 Schleusner: "Any space of time whether longer or shorter, past, present or future, to be determined by the persons or things spoken of, and the scope of the subjects; the life or age of man. Aiónios, a definite and long period of time, that is, a long enduring, but still definite period of time."

 Passow: " Aiónios, long continued, eternal, everlasting, in the classics.

 Grove: "Eternity; and age, life, duration, continuance of time; a revolution of ages, a dispensation of Providence, this world or life; the world or life to come. Aiónios, eternal, immortal, perpetual, former, past, ancient."

 Donnegan: "Time; space of time; life time and life; the ordinary period of man's life; the age of man; man's estate; a long period of time; eternity; the spinal marrow. Aiónios, of long duration, lasting, eternal, permanent."

 Ewing: "Duration, finite or infinite; a period of duration, past or future; an age; duration of the world; ages of the world; human life in this world, or the next; our manner of life in the world; and age of divine dispensation, the ages, generally reckoned three, that before law, that under the law, and that under the Messiah. Aiónios, (from preceding,) ages of the world, periods of the dispensatins since the world began."

 Schrevelius: "An age, a long period of time; indefinite duration, time, whether longer or shorter, past, prensent or future; also, in the New Testament, the wicked men of the age, life, the life of man. Aiónios, of long duration, lasting, sometimes everlasting, sometimes lasting through life as æturnus in Latin."

 Dr. Taylor, who wrote the Hebrew Bible three times with his own hand, says of Olam, (Greek Aión) it signifies a duration which is concealed, as being of an unknown or great length. "It signifies eternity, not from the proper force of the word, but when the sense of the place or the nature of the subject require it, as God and his attributes."

 Pickering: Almost identical with Schrevelius in his definitions.

 Hinks: "A period of time; and age, an after time, eternity.Aiónios, lasting, eternal, of old, since the beginning."

 Lutz: "An age, time, eternity. Aiónios, durable, eternal."

 Macknight: (Scotch Presbyterian.) "These words being ambiguous, are always to be understood according to the nature and circumstances to which they are applied." He thinks the words sustain endless punishment, but adds: "At the same time I must be so candid as to acknowledge that the use of these terms, forever, eternal and everlasting, in other passages of Scripture, shows that they who understand these words in a limited sense, when applied to punishment, put no forced interpretation upon them.

 Wright: "Time, age, life-time, period, revolution of ages, dispensation of Providence, present world, or life, world to come, eternity.Aiónios, eternal, ancient."

 Robinson: "Life, also an age, that is an indefinite long period of time, perpetuity, ever, forever, eternity, forever, without end, to the remotest time, forever and ever, of old, from everlasting, the world, present or future, this world and the next, present world, men of this world, world itself, advent of Messiah. Aiónios, perpetual, everlasting, eternal, chiefly spoken of future time, ancient."

 Jones: "An everlasting age, eternal, forever, a period of time, age, life, the present world, or life; the Jewish dispensation; a good demon, angel as supposed to exist forever . . . Aiónios, everlasting, ancient."

 Schweighauser and Valpyv substantially agree.

 Maclaine, in his Mosheim: Aión or æon among the ancients, was used to signify the age of man, or the duration of human life."

 Cruden: "The words eternal, everlasting, forever, are sometimes taken for a long time, and are not always to be understood strictly, for example, 'Thou shalt be our guide form this time forth, even forever,' that is, during our whole life."

 Alex. Campbell: "ITS RADICAL IDEA IS INDEFINITE DURATION."

 Whitby: "Nothing is more common and familiar in Scripture than to render a thorough and irreparable vastation, whose effects and signs should be still remaining, by the word aiónios, which we render eternal."Hammond, Benson, and Gilpin, in notes on Jude 7, say the same. Liddell and Scott also give to aión, in the poets the sense of life and lifetime, as also an age or generation.

 Pearce (in Matt. vii:33) says: "The Greek word aión, seems to signify age here, as it often does in the New Testament, and according to its most proper signification." Clarke, Wakefield, Boothroyd, Simpson, Lindsey, Mardon, Acton, agree. So do Locke, Hammond, Le Clerc, Beausobre, Lenfant, Dodridge, Paulus, Kenrick and Olshausen.

 T. Southwood Smith: "Sometimes it signifies the term of human life; at other times an age, or dispensation of Providence. Its most common signification is that of age or dispensation."

 Scarlett: "That aiónion, does not mean endless or eternal, may appear from considering that no adjective can have a greater force than the noun from which it is derived. If aión means age (which none either will or can deny) then aiónionmust mean age-lasting, or duration through the age or ages to which the thing spoken or relates."

  Even Professor Stuart is obliged to say: "The most common and appropriate meaning of aión in the New Testament, and the one which corresponds with the Hebrew word olam, and which therefore deserves the first rank in regard to order, I put down first: an indefinite period of time; time without limitation; ever, forever, time without end, eternity, all in relation to future time. The different shades by which the word is rendered, depend on the object with whichaiónios is associated, or to which it has relation, rather than to any difference in the real meaning of the word."

  J. W. Haley *says: "The Hebrew word 'olam' rendered 'forever,' does not imply the metaphysical idea of absolute endlessness, but a period of indefinite length, as Rambach says, a very long time, the end of which is hidden from us." Olam or olim is the Hebrew equivalent of aión.

  Dr. Edward Beecher(11) remarks, "It commonly means merely continuity of action . . . all attempts to set forth eternity as the original and primary sense of aión are at war with the facts of the Greek language for five centuries, in which it denoted life and its derivative senses, and the sense eternity was unknown." And he also says what is the undoubted fact, "that the original sense ofaión is not eternity. . . . It is conceded on all hands that this (life) was originally the general use of the word. In the Paris edition of Henry Stephens' Lexicon it is affirmed emphatically "that life, or the space of life, is the primitive sense of the word, and that it is always so used by Homer, Hesiod, and the old poets; also by Pindar and the tragic writers, as well as by Herodotus and Xenophon." "Pertaining to the world to come," is the sense given to "These shall go away into everlasting punishment," by Prof. Tayler Lewis, who adds(12) "The preacher in contending with the Universalist and the Restorationist, would commit an error, and it may be suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological of historical significance of the words aión, aiónios, and attempt to prove that of themselves they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration. 'These shall go away into the restraint, imprisonment of the world to come,' is all we can etymologically or exegetically make of the word in this passage."

* "An Examination of the Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible," p.216.
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