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Author Topic: Another Look At Cain  (Read 3080 times)

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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Another Look At Cain
« on: September 02, 2008, 11:35:53 AM »


Gen 4:13  And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment5771 is greater than I can bear.
 
H5771
עוון    עון
‛âvôn  ‛âvôn
aw-vone', aw-vone'
From H5753; perversity, that is, (moral) evil: - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.

We all know that sometimes the translations can be a bit skewed and that the original languages have words with multiple definitions and that translators have used their own biased beliefs in choosing what definition to use.

Cain has always been (to me anyway) a very unsympathetic charactor, what I mean by that is that Cain slew Abel because of his anger, of course this anger had its root in pride, Cain was offended that his sacrifice was deemed insufficient and inferior to his brother Abel's sacrifice. But once this act of murder was finished and Cain's anger subsided how did he feel then? We do not have any indication in scripture that Cain was always storming about with a chip on his shoulder, picking fights and being a disagreeable person.

I happened across Genesis 4:13 in another couple of translations;


Amplified Version
 
Genesis 4:13Then Cain said to the Lord, My punishment is [a] greater than I can bear.

Close to the KJV but look at the footnote;

Footnotes:

Genesis 4:13 Some ancient versions read, "too great to be forgiven!"

New Living Translation

Genesis 4:13 Cain replied to the Lord, “My punishment[a] is too great for me to bear!

Footnotes:

Genesis 4:13 Or My sin.

English Standard Version

Genesis 4:13 Cain said to the LORD, "My(A) punishment is greater than I can bear.[a]

Footnotes:

Genesis 4:13 Or My guilt is too great to bear

Holman Christian Standard Bible

Genesis 4:13 But Cain answered the LORD, "My punishment [a] is too great to bear!

Footnotes:

Genesis 4:13 Or sin

In checking these different versions out I began to see Cain in a different light, yes, his sin was great but it does look as if the possibility exists that he was very remorseful and was not actually telling God the punishment was too great but that his guilty conscience was tormenting him, of course the thought that he himself might be murdered played into the mix as well but I have begun to look at Cain as not some uncompromising, jealous murderer but rather a conflicted man that let his temper get the best of him in a moment of weakness. Now that is something many of us (me for one) can relate to.

I am not attempting to change minds or teach a "new Cain" but I did find this interesting and it did cause me to look within as I judge Cain's action(s).

Peace,

Joe
   
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iris

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 12:04:50 PM »

Hi Joe,

Its good to check out different translations.

It helps us to better understand what we are reading,

and the more we understand, the better for us to walk in

Jesus' footsteps.

Iris
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 12:39:51 PM »

Good post, but the serpent seed folks will burn you at the stake ::) :P

what do yall think the mark was that cain recieved? why do so many think it was a bad mark? or the mark of the beast or something?

was it mercy God showed cain?  i think so.

but yes cain is a perfect example of carnal man.

peace
chuckt

« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 12:46:19 PM by chuckt »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 01:12:14 PM »

what do yall think the mark was that cain recieved? why do so many think it was a bad mark? or the mark of the beast or something?

was it mercy God showed cain?  i think so.

peace
chuckt



Chuckt,

You are right about God showing Cain mercy.

Gen. 4:15 ...And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him

And great post Joe...the other translations help out a lot. I think the mark represented mercy. And like Ray said about Eve not receiving an actual 'rib from Adam but something that made her female, in the same way, I think Cain received something that represented mercy and not like a tattoo or other kind of physical mark. I could be wrong I haven't studied this subject extensively. What do you guys think?


Thanks,

Marques
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 03:09:23 PM »

Hi Iris,

I really have come to appreciate researching the different translations and their capacity to open up understanding by offering different nuances to the root words, Strong's is helpful but we can see the bias poking through the definitions at times.

Marques, ChuckT's post has really stirred me to dig a bit deeper into his question "what do yall think the mark was that cain recieved?"

First thing I did was check for others that received a mark of protection from God I found a very compelling one in Ezekiel;


Eze 9:4  And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem and set a mark8420 upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Look at how this "mark" is defined;

H8420
תּו
tâv
tawv
From H8427; a mark; by implication a signature: - desire, mark.

In Genesis 4:15 the "mark" is rooted by another set of definitions;

H226
אות
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

They don't really cancel each other out but in a backhanded way actually complement each other, the other thing about the Ezekiel "mark" is that it is also the last letter in the Hebrew alphabet, this is very interesting!


  Taw   (taw 2496a) means mark, and its verb  (tawa 2496), scribble, limit, is probably derived from the noun. TWOTOT suggests that the more ancient form of this letter looked like an X, a shape which lends itself easily as a general mark. The word (ta'awa 2496b) means boundary (that which is marked). The verb  is used only once in the meaning of pain or wound (tawa 2497) in Ps 78:41.

Looked like an X......................... a cross maybe?

I love researching this stuff!

Peace,

Joe
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 03:17:36 PM »

Quote
Looked like an X......................... a cross maybe?

wooot
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:25:00 AM »


wooot


 ;D

Hi Chuck,

Is this "wooot" a good thing?  ???

Peace to you Brother,

Joe
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 09:36:17 AM »


wooot


 ;D

Hi Chuck,

Is this "wooot" a good thing?  ???

Peace to you Brother,

Joe

yes woot woot is a good thing!!

God bless
chuckt
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2008, 11:26:09 PM »

Very interesting discussion.  I just can never get the understanding that there were cities that Cain was going into.  Cities????  Were they all populated by his relatives???

Maybe Ray will address this in Nashville.
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Jackie Lee

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2008, 12:35:19 AM »

 ;D I have thought the same thoughts gmik!
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2008, 02:10:37 AM »


Hi Gena,

Considering that Adam lived to be 930 (Gen. 5:5) and Jewish tradition has him fathering 56 children.  Now if all people live these very long life spans at that time and had such a great number of children... Well you can see how Cain would have lived long enough for there to be cities.   At least that is my estimation of things  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2008, 02:48:17 AM »

This is a very fruitful thread!

Cain could not bear the punishment/consequence of his actions. Can we bear the second death. Who can resist God's plan or who can thwart the LOF? Non. Not one.

We know that the Scriptures foreshadow the spiritual aspects of our circumstances. Paul wrote that upon us, the ends of the age have come. This to me is the judgment of God upon His House now. The salting with fire. Who can bear the consuming fire of God? Meshack, Shadrack and Abednego came through fire without being harmed but look at what they had to pass through before they were thrown into the furnace!

The Elect are in communion with the consuming fire of God and there is no way to become Elect except that the fire of God purges and purifies.

We are all like Cain. Wanting the favor of God and falling short of the mark. This fiery consequence of our being inadequate, is part of the process of purification. Like Job, Isaiah and Cain, we have to come to understand that by contrast to God, we are nothing. Jesus knew and taught this. "Without Me, you can do nothing."
Arc.
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WhoAmI

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2008, 04:09:26 AM »

I think it is good that we look at Cain in us also. I know I have murdered many people in my mind, in the sense of how Christ taught us. I have heard so many people say how they are going to kick Adam and Even in the rear because they think they messed it up for them. I tell them that they need to see the Adam and Eve in themselves. They also should realize that they are Judas as well!

Jeff
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gmik

  • Guest
Re: Another Look At Cain
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2008, 02:51:21 PM »

Thanks Arc and Jeff.  That is the real point of Cain.  You both brought it out so that I SEE it!

Cities is one of those diversions I think to get us away from the spiritual truth of the matter.

Kat, you are probably right about that!

Jackie Lee there are probably a lot of us out there that think about those things. :D
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