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Author Topic: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.  (Read 4453 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« on: September 10, 2008, 01:06:52 AM »

Other than hell/heaven and free will (and maybe tithing), what other idols of the heart or false doctrines have you had smashed in you since coming to B-T? 

I ask 'you' because it's easy for me to see the 'wrong' in other traditions, but I mostly want to know where and how I am wrong and I hope some of ytou who have trodden this path ahead of me can help.

Others of you may also be able to answer from an 'observers' perspective.

Graci.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Patrick

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 01:17:17 AM »

Trinity, death, winning souls, and "church" are a few.
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Jackie Lee

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 01:57:59 AM »

Soul winning was a biggie for me, I felt I had did God a great favor by bringing people to church with me.
It was like a feather in my cap, so I thought.
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David

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 07:58:52 AM »

Dipping yourself in water in order to recieve the Holy Spirit. Something I never did but kind of felt I should because of all the preasure to do so. "Getting saved" past tense. That was a favourite mantra in my Church. "So and so got saved, lets praise God everyone" or "when and how did you get saved", all talked about as though it were a done deal, you said the prayer, dipped yourself, had the pastor lay his hands on you, that was all there was to it in their minds. I was in that mindset too until I saw Rays two videos "how hard is it to get saved" about two years ago.
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kweli

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 08:15:40 AM »

I had a few...
  • Speaking in tongues
  • Romans 8 (I always thought the book of Romans suggests that no matter what I do, good or bad, I'm justified)
  • Revelations being literal
  • Being seen/approved by men, especially of the cloth
Tithing was always a bitter pill to swallow. Ray's paper on it was my first step to freedom. Then everything else was just wrong. I mean I cant tell you one thing that I thought was right in the sight of GOD. Imagine that...
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psalmsinger

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 08:42:12 AM »

To add to all of the above:

Your "church" is the only one that is totally right.....shun everyone else, especially the Catholic (they drink) and Jehovah witness(they don't celebrate holidays) and bits and pieces of every other protestant religion, including other Baptist sects just don't have the whole truth like "us".    The element of pride is found in every carnal religious group or person.

barbara
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OBrenda

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 09:43:50 AM »

Well,

All of the above, and the list gets longer all the time.

I think a Key to the truth, is to first understand, that it is in God's Will to deceive & blind us to the truth.

That one shook me up more than the others!  If one meditates on this, it changes everthing about how we think feel and interact with our world of understanding!

Many things like UR brought great Joy, and confirmation to my spirit!  Shocking was "end times" and the book of Revelations.  Still in murky water about that stuff?

Looking Forward to more,
Brenda
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mharrell08

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 11:18:57 AM »

All of the above and this:

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual...

Colossans 2:16-17  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come


I used to attend Word of Faith in Marietta, GA. It is a harlot church of the Word of Faith megachurch in Detroit, MI. The only understood the physical, material and not the spiritual. They thought to be a seed of Abraham, that they would receive the material blessings. "The flesh profit nothing" fell on deaf ears with them.


Thanks,

Marques
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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 01:14:57 PM »

My idol of the heart was keeping the traditional Sabbath (Saturday). For years I went to a Seventh Day Adventist Church. Our congregation would not do anywork from Sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night. This routine got to be so oppressive after awhile that I could not do it any longer. Almost everyone in the church was always in such a dower mood. I was much happier as a Christian before joining the 7th Day Adventist.

I am even happier now that I know all of mankind is going to be saved and one day we will all be in heaven together.
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AK4

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 02:19:42 PM »

Heaven is a "state of mind" not a location somewhere in outer space. 
God is not a terrorists.
That is wasnt up to me to come to the Lord
My house on the sand crumbling.
Probably most of all.  the whole bible like a parable which lets you see His words are Spirit.  With this one everything is so much clearer now.  I remember reading the bible years back and I would just chose which verse would have a spiritual meaning.  Now I believe all of the bible has a spiritual meaning.

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JeffH

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 03:41:10 PM »

What has been crossing my mind on this lately is how I've created my own self as an idol of the heart.
Meaning, I lower God to my standards of expectations and reasoning, then expect him to pick up all the crumbling peices of my life and put them back together in perfect order.  All the while blaming him for the disasters as they've happened.
I've yet to completely understand "no free-will".   It remains in my mind that I've created a few bad situations and wonder if God actually put these things in place in my life.   Some of them are pretty bad choices on my part.  I actually wonder sometimes if he cares.
Hope this makes sense.

Hi Amrhrasach,

I can relate to what you wrote.  I've made some pretty serious mistakes myself.  I was always convinced (or convincing myself) that God wanted me to do some thing or another, so it must be right (and maybe it actually was, but not in the way I'd hoped).  With me it relates to marriage and my failures are still a weight on me.  But because of those failures, I've grown.  I don't know how old you are - I'm 49 - but it takes how ever much time God gives you to come to understand the reasons for the path you're on.  It's possible that you may never know for certain (in the flesh anyway) why things happened the way they did, but you can be sure that God is pure love.  If you've come to understand that His creation will not burn in a pit of torment, then it should be easier to understand that He does care about you and everyone He's ever created.

I don't know your specific circumstances but I have to think that if you're here, someone else in the world is much worse off than you are.  Nothing is more important than love and truth is part of that.  It's the truth that sets us free and you're learning the truth. 

It takes a lifetime to live, whether it's 90 days or 90 years.  Be patient and wait on God and He'll reveal Himself to you as He decides is best.

Psalm 37:4 "Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart."

I used to think that this verse meant that if I'm close to God and obedient, that He would give me the things I wished for.  As I grew in faith I started to wonder if it meant something slightly different.

I don't know this for certain, but I like to think that this verse is telling us that if we're obedient, God will set upon our hearts the desires He wants us to have - His desires.  He'll give to us the desire He has for us in His plan of salvation.  One of the Hebrew words in that verse (nathan) Strong's [H5414] means to put or set.  Meditate on the truth that God is in control of every thought you have, every molecule in this universe we live in. 

Nothing happens without His will, from life to death and beyond.  He is everywhere and He knows everything and He has a plan. 

You are part of that plan.

All of your mistakes and bad choices are part of the plan God has, in order to lead you to a true understanding of Who He is and What He desires.


Jeff




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Kat

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 07:40:46 PM »


Hi Amrhrasach,

Here are a few emails for you to consider, that may help you with your sticking point.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2099.0.html ----

NO! NO, we absolutely do not have "free will." I realize that this concept is far too deep for most to comprehend and this is because it appears, it seems like, it feels like, we have the ability to make choices that are not caused, but this is just an illusion. There is no such thing as an event that happens anywhere in the Universe without a cause. And this is just as true for a thought in your mind as it is for an exploding star. And it is absolutely, totally, and repeatedly backed up by dozens and dozens of Scriptures.
God be with you,
Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3622.0.html ----

Yes, you have basically stated the facts correctly, however
    your conclusion is erroneous.
     
    You agree to believe that God does control all things in
    the Universe, but then suggest, therefore GOD DOESN'T
    NEED TO CONTROL ANYTHING!  How do you
    suppose it is that God DOES all the things He does?  He
    causes things to happen by the circumstances of His creation.
    I HAD to write my papers, even though from my perspective,
    it was I who volunteered to do so. And my paper has already
    had a profound effect on thousands of people's thinking with
    regards to Dr. Kennedy's evil and unscriptural sermons.
     
    You can't decide to stay in bed and stop living unless it has
    already been predetermined before the foundation of the world
    that this is the course you MUST TAKE.  We ARE the actors
    on God's stage of life, and we WILL perform as God directs.
    God be with you,
    Ray

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,629.0.html -----

There is a lot going on in your mind that you do not understand. I get letters just like yours all the time.
 
[1] You do not understand the difference between "choice" and "free choice."
[2] You do not understand the difference between "will" and "free will."
[3] You do not understand what it means for God to be Sovereign.
[4] You don't object to God KNOWING all things in advance, but you do object to God being in CONTROL of all things in advance.
 
Therefore, it is impossible for you to see the truth of this subject.
 
You state: "While the scriptures you quoted clearly state that God knows all before it occurs, before each choice of humanity is made, that still does not preclude our free will."
 
First of all, it is NOT "my theory" as you suggest. I got this truth from the Scriptures.
 
But your statement above leaves out something else that I did  over and over in the Scriptures. I not only showed where God "knew" what would happen in advance, but I showed from the Scriptures where God both propphesies and CAUSED people to do what was necessary to bring about God's desired future. Remember that whole long section on the King of Assyria, for example?
 
Furthermore, God's foreknowledge does prevent us from having free will. If God KNOWS that we WILL take course A in our life, we certainly are NOT FREE to take course B. No one is "free" to do something that is not open unto him to choose.  Yes, it is quite simple, but not many can understand and accept the Scriptural teaching on this subject. Meditate on it for a few thousand hours in light of all the Scriptures as I have, and maybe God will open it up to your understanding. But only if God has ALREADY DETERMINED that He will open it up to you..
God be with you,
Ray
 
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Kent

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 08:40:43 PM »

Other than hell/heaven and free will (and maybe tithing), what other idols of the heart or false doctrines have you had smashed in you since coming to B-T? 


KJV "inerrancy". It's one of the biggest idols out there, IMO.
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Linny

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 09:32:15 PM »

These are some great answers here of which I am in full agreement.
Also, since you mentioned idols, I have been dealing with some other things even before finding BT and they continue.

The WORLD! All the systems of the world. I see how I was just like everybody else and following like sheep the stuff I heard in the media, the stuff I heard from whatever political party I happened to agree with (or being deceived into thinking they agreed with me  :-[)
You name it, if it was begun by man, is run by man, involves any money whatsoever, or is touted as truth by man and is the concensus opinion, I question it...

I only want to be a sheep of the Lord and only hear His voice.
The blinders are off! (I hope! :-\)

Lin
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Jackie Lee

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 11:24:34 PM »

I am really struggling with freewill even though I know now there is really no freewill.
Years ago I always wondered why my plans was changed and never panned out?
I am struggling with freewill, I keep thinking surely God didn't direct me to all the sins and disobedience.
Then There is pride another issue.
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dinkc

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 12:31:11 AM »

This is my first post.  I will have to introduce myself when I have more time but I wanted to respond to this post.  Less than a year ago I went from a 30 year fundamental independent baptist to whatever we folks are that adhere to the teachings found on BT.  In an 18 month period my spiritual life has been turned upside down.  Sometimes I think I am still in shock.  Looking back, this one thing I am certain of:  I didn't go looking for this!  Step by step I only responded to events that came my way.  I am still daily amazed at the process that brought me to this point.  To think I had anything to do with it would be like a man who tripped, fell down a hill and when he gathered himself together found a pot of gold at his feet and then declared  what a wise and crafty man he was to have discovered this treasure.  (Is that a parable?) 

The free will issue is a hard lesson after many years of religious tradition but I can't deny the scriptures.  This "conversion experience" was an added witness to those scriptures.  Thanks everyone for just being here!

D in KC







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musicman

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 12:38:33 AM »

Here's an idol that nobody has mentioned.  Going to some building with the area's most expensive architecture (including those steeples which look alot like a penis) to listen to some blathering blind man tell us what God's will is for our lives.  And that will get you into "heaven".


Also, today I scripturally ripped apart some blog head who says that Christ was made to be sin.  How do I do it?  I go through Ray's work.
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JeffH

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 12:52:19 AM »

Hi Jeff and thank you.
Iím 52, and yes, that is PRECISELY what Iím speaking of as well, marriage.   
Everything Iíve read of Rayís teachings, and Iíve read most all of it (twice over) agrees with every fiber of my being., and I thank God for leading me to BT.
BUT, itís the free-will issue that continues to hang like a black cloud and the winds of it have a tendency to throw my balance off in the growing.   And this relates directly back to the marriage issue.   I suppose what Iím saying is this:  Did ďIĒ make the choice regardless of Godís direction?....or, did God direct this (and all events related) to what it is today?
At one point I thought I remembered a lesson from Ray but have been unable to locate it.
Honestly, itís a most serious sticking point for me and one that really needs to be settled in my heart and mind.   I continue to plug away at studying and reading and certainly would not stop as I take delight in what has been revealed.    But, as Iíve said before, it feels so much like a spiritual prison that Iím beginning to lose sense and purpose of the possible reasons for such a restricted understanding.
Thank you again for your most encouraging post.

Amrhrasach,

Then I do know your pain.  It's no coincidence that we're here together.

God brought you to this point for a reason.  You may have been in a position to make other choices, but you would still be where you are now.  Here.  This is where God has been bringing you since before you were born.  It's calamity that drove you to seek the truth.  That's it's purpose.  If you had make other choices, they likely would have been just as difficult as the ones you did make.  That's a hard thing to draw in, but we're all here because we're seeking our Creator, but we're only seeking Him because He desires for us to do so.  You could arrive by train, plane or automobile and each path would have had it's own troubles, but it's what's ahead that matters.

Is it possible that you're looking for some relief mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually from the pain you feel?  If God wanted you to fail in marriage, would that relieve some of the guilt and along with it cleanse your conscience?  If so, you're definitely in the right place.

God wants you to know that he's forgiven you and He's literally wiped clean His memory of every sin you know about and even the ones you don't.  Your task is to let go of them too.  Wipe them from your own memory as though they never happened and be glad that God chose your path for you, because the person you are today isn't the person you were yesterday, last week or last year. 

The fact that you're troubled means that you feel responsible for your past, but you aren't.  God is.  He's responsible for every choice you've ever made.  Your responsibility is to seek His forgiveness and in doing so you're humbled and that's what He wants in His people - humility.  If you had never made the choices you did and life was perfect, would you be here now?

Think about the people Jesus went to.  The ones He wanted to see and be with were hurting, spiritually sick, emotionally drained and to the world they were the least desirable people around.  Jesus loved those broken people.  God doesn't draw perfect people to Himself.  He's handpicking those He humbles and that's us.

Here's the best practical advice I can give you - let go.  Start thinking about tomorrow.  What happened yesterday is gone, it doesn't exist anymore except in your thoughts.  Love deeply.  Laugh every day and let go of the guilt. You're already free from it, but you just don't realize it yet. In time you will.  :)  Start moving forward and let go of the past.  Think of tomorrow as your first day with a clean slate.  Use what you're learning to make a difference in someones life every day, because there's nothing you can do to change what's already happened.

I pray for peace of mind for you and a joyful heart, free from guilt and the pain of your experiences and I do so in our Lord Jesus' name.

Your brother in Christ,
Jeff
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JeffH

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 01:00:28 AM »

This is my first post.  I will have to introduce myself when I have more time but I wanted to respond to this post.  Less than a year ago I went from a 30 year fundamental independent baptist to whatever we folks are that adhere to the teachings found on BT.  In an 18 month period my spiritual life has been turned upside down.  Sometimes I think I am still in shock.  Looking back, this one thing I am certain of:  I didn't go looking for this!  Step by step I only responded to events that came my way.  I am still daily amazed at the process that brought me to this point.  To think I had anything to do with it would be like a man who tripped, fell down a hill and when he gathered himself together found a pot of gold at his feet and then declared  what a wise and crafty man he was to have discovered this treasure.  (Is that a parable?) 

The free will issue is a hard lesson after many years of religious tradition but I can't deny the scriptures.  This "conversion experience" was an added witness to those scriptures.  Thanks everyone for just being here!

D in KC

D,

I found this place many years ago and it was a good 6 months or more before I stopped hyperventilating.  It was years before it all really kicked in and I knew I was on the right path.  It's so much a part of me now, that it feels very natural.  It's become a part of me, it's inside and outside and all around and I'm part of it.  It's rough to have your chair pulled out from under you, but man is it worth it!!!  Welcome!

Jeff
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winner08

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Re: A ? for ex-Baptists and similar 'evangelicals'.
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 01:53:41 AM »

I never really attended churches. I was baptised catholic and went through 1st -4th to Catholic school after that I was done with being catholic.  I try a few non denominational churches but I found it unbelievable. Through the years I read and studied on my own and when I found the teaching of Armstrong I thought I finally found the truth. For yrs I studied and read all His material. I was convince I knew the truth. Then as I was searching the net I came across Ray's site. It's been 5 or 6 months and I am still in shock. I guess my biggest shock was/is there's no hell where i will be sent to burn forever for being the bad person I was. The next one was/is that all will be saved. Then everything else Ray teaches. I do mean everything all His papers still has me reeling.

Darren
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