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Author Topic: fatalism v. the will of God  (Read 2535 times)

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hart4god

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fatalism v. the will of God
« on: May 20, 2006, 10:42:29 AM »

I don't really know how to title this post-
and I am sure I am going to reveal my total ignorance byasking these questions but please be patient with me and bear with my weakness-

If the Will of God is going to be accomplished in my life no matter what- my choices all influence by Him to one direction or another-How can I consider making decisions or wanting to do certian thing with my life- Is there a reason to actually do anything? There will be many changes in my life in the next 3-4 years. Many decisions to make. Why make any of them?
-am I just endure to the end? are we all just waiting for the grave?
-is there any point to this life- its careers, relationships, fulfullment accomplishements?

I honestly do not know how to live my life anymore other than just waiting for the end.

Of course I study, pray, seek to serve, love my family etc. But it all seems to be really of no purpose. That I am moving through a "play" that is already written-and there is no need for me to care about any of it.

any encouragement or correction would be appreciated.
it just all seems so hopeless and pointless
thanks
hart4god
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orion77

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fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2006, 12:29:38 PM »

Hart4god, have you read the papers by Ray concerning free will.  They will answer all of your questions.

We all have a will and make choices, but they are not free.  Ray can explain it better than I can.  A very worthwhile read.

God bless,

Gary
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Daniel

  • Guest
fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2006, 12:30:50 PM »

Hart4God,

If God is drawing you, He will teach you all things. Hopeless, not at all when HE is our hope. I wasn''t told that he was my HOPE, I was told He was my torturer. Now that you know He is not your heart is asking, "what is this life, purpose or walk"? Or what is His will, the end, what is this all about? Those very same questions in me were like a driving force created in me causing me to desire to find out. Him being the Father of our spirits knows just how to stir up within us these very things causing us to seek Him.

Its hard to discern being in the middle of how your feeling, but even these feelings created in you will cause you to move in a direction between choices before you. Thats how I see it or can best describe it.

I too have been thinking on "the end" and what it is to "endure unto it" heres a few verses that were quickened to me.

Mathew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Its Him, HE is "The end"

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end[/u], the first and the last.


James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end OF THE LORD; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Theres more on enduring, be it grief, persecutions, mockings, scourgings etc. Heres only a few having purpose in them that work for us.


1Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.[/u]

Two kinds of buffeting one for doing wrong and doing well


1Peter 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.[/u]

1Peter 2:21-23 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

1Thes 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

2Cr 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;[/u]

Romans 8:17 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.[/u]

Col 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles[/u]; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:[/u]

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.[/u]

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,[/u]

What are we waiting for? Looking for? Hoping for? Seems some diirection helps us to focus in and engage that hope FOR something if we knew what it was we had hope for. Theres more then whats here but its a start.

1Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;[/u]

It does help when a brother or sister can stir you up in a healthy direction.

2Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:[/u]  

1Titus 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Theres way too much to write, by reading the word it encourages you and helps direct you in the various stages of your growth.

"This is eternal life, that they KNOW THEE" Paul's course or dirrection was THAT I MIGHT KNOW HIM. That (to me) is a purest path and highest call a seeking heart could desire. Just having that thirst for Him is a blessing in and oof itself. That your heart be directed into the love of God and seek to lay hold of THAT and its unseen yet very real evidences.

Sounds good to me :D

Daniel
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hillsbororiver

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fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2006, 12:58:07 PM »

Hi hart4,

Indeed this mystery of God is difficult to fathom, yes He is sovereign, yes He puts us in situations that we have no control over, but we do make choices. He may put you where you are at to make a decision to choose between obeying your carnal desires or submitting to His spiritual commands.

He does this as He molds the spiritual clay that is us, isn't it amazing that we actually play a role in our own creation, albeit this role is directed and inspired by Him but we are being molded into what is pleasing to Him and what ultimately will be glorious joy to us.

I am familiar with that feeling of "why do anything" why not just subsist one day to the next until I die. Paul reminds us that faith without works is dead, it is also written that we should not hide our Light under a bushel and be prepared to answer those that ask.

We had a thread going about "talents" and all the possible meanings of this parable, when you ask about what is the point of doing anything career wise or in school or any temporal thing I believe we have all been given "talents" to enrich those around us and to be a good example, if we bury those talents in a carnal lethargy we are stunting our spiritual growth.

Many of us experience the joy of His Spirit when His plan and purpose seems clear, we feel the Love and His Word jumps off the page at us. Then come the darker days where the only thing we have is faith that we are not forsaken by Him. These are not easy times, but we were never promised no trials or tribulations, no, if fact quite the opposite we are told we will endure "fiery trials" this is what purifies us, as we keep the faith through the darker times, emptying ourselves of the carnal nature His Spirit will fill us more and more. We become less flesh and more spirit each and every time we "endure" these trials.

hart4, I hope this has helped a little and I suggest you read Ray's Free Will paper again. Peace, I pray His Spirit richly blesses you today.

Joe

P.S. http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
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ertsky

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fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2006, 07:51:23 PM »

Hi hart

i thought i would just quote some of your thoughts and respond to show how it can be a matter of how we look at it.

Quote
I don't really know how to title this post-
and I am sure I am going to reveal my total ignorance byasking these questions but please be patient with me and bear with my weakness-


not at all, you are more likely to expose my total ignorance and i ask you to bear with my weakness.

Quote
-How can I consider making decisions or wanting to do certian thing with my life-


how can you not

Quote
Is there a reason to actually do anything?


Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Quote
Is there a reason to actually do anything?


Phi 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Quote
There will be many changes in my life in the next 3-4 years. Many decisions to make. Why make any of them?


because there is no way not to

Quote
-am I just endure to the end?


theres no just about it, to endure to the end is the most noble epic ever written. only the Author has read the end yet.

Quote
are we all just waiting for the grave?


Tit 3:14  And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Quote
-is there any point to this life- its careers, relationships, fulfullment accomplishements?


yes there is

Eph 3:10  so that now to the rulers and to the authorities in the heavenlies might be made known through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11  according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,

the whole of Eph 3 is great

Quote
I honestly do not know how to live my life anymore other than just waiting for the end.


i know the feeling hart but as the saying goes "faint hart never won fair maiden"

Rom 8:31  What then shall we say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32  Truly He who did not spare His own Son, but gave Him up on behalf of us all, how will He not freely give all things to us with Him?

Quote
Of course I study, pray, seek to serve, love my family etc. But it all seems to be really of no purpose. That I am moving through a "play" that is already written-and there is no need for me to care about any of it.


ahhhhhhhhhh now i get it, what you are saying

dont fall for it hart it's a lie, there is a need to care

1Pe 5:6  Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
1Pe 5:7  Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
1Pe 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9  Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10  But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

as for me it was when i collapsed into the couch and quietly said within myself. "that's it Lord, i give up, i'll never be the christian i wanted so badly to be" why that was when i heard someone singing (actually humming at first, then singing) quite cheerily with a cheeky irish glint in His voice..."King of kings and Lord of lords"

Rev 17:14  These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

f
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ertsky

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fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2006, 12:25:47 AM »

oh i was just reading some verses and as my eyes alighted on these verses my thoughts immediately returned to this thread

Heb 13:20 But, the God of peace, He that led up from among the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, with the blood of an age-abiding covenant,—our Lord Jesus,
Heb 13:21 Fit you, by every good work, for the doing of his will, doing within us, that which is well-pleasing, before him through Jesus Christ: to whom be the glory, unto the ages of ages. Amen.

f
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hart4god

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fatalism v. the will of God
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2006, 10:11:50 AM »

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL ENCOURAGEMENT AND INSIGHT.

I am in a strange place as I assimilate TRUTH and some of it (as you all know personally, too) has rocked my world. I  have read and re-read the information from Ray's site on the Free-Will Myth as well as all papers on hell.
It is such an exquisite death to have the self on the altar.
I understand that is the process I am going through. death to the idol and illusion of my free will.

and again- every one of you brought something positive and helpful in this time of burning. I so appreciate how kind you were in instructing me. gentle like with a child. that helps so much- not to be reviled and condemned and judge for my weakness.

Thank you for the help- I will be printing it for further "medical" purposes.
blessings-
hart4god
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