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Author Topic: 2 ressurections?  (Read 3551 times)

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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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2 ressurections?
« on: September 15, 2008, 04:43:46 AM »

I have read several people's posts mentioning 2 different Resurrections, I have not read every post at bible-truths .com however I have no idea what these people are posting about. Are there going to be 2 Resurrections and if so why? Is this tied up with the mainstream christian idea of a rapture? Someone help me I am totally confused. ???
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Heidi

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2008, 07:43:00 AM »

Hi there Douglas (hope it's OK to call you by your name?) 

Here is an emailed response from Ray regarding the same question you are asking.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5028.0.html

   There are not two resurrection for the same person, but rather two classes of people who are resurrected, and the Elect are said to be in the "first" or "former" resurrection.  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST [or former] resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Now this is some question as to whether this verse is really Scripture or whether it was added to the manuscript. We still have conformation of two classes of people resurrected from other Scriptures:

        "...that there shall be a resurrection of the [1] JUST, and [2] UNJUST" (Acts. 24:15).

        "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, [1] some to everlasting [eonian] life, and [2] some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

        "And shall come forth; they that have done good unto [1] the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto [2] the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29).

AND ALSO:

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1474.0.html
 
Jesus died on the cross to save you and all humanity from SIN AND DEATH.
 
And you and everyone else WILL BELIEVE it eventually, but NO, those in the Second Resurrection to the Great White Throne/Lake of Fire/Second Death JUDGMENT will NOT get the same reward as those in the First Resurrection.
Read all the material on my site for the details.
God be with you,
Ray


Have you read Ray's paper on Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory?  If you haven't it may be good for you to read it.  I am currently studying it for the second time
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sansmile

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2008, 07:43:43 AM »

Hi Douglas,
I beleive  that the first resurrection is when the dead in Christ rule with Him for the 1000 yrs.
Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand year(Rev 20:5)  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Now if u look at those scriptures  and take away  the words in italic (because they are said NOT to have been in the original manuscript),
Then we can see what the first resurrection is. The elect. The 2nd being  those that are not in Christ and are resurrected for judgement.
(Rev 20:6)  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The elect will already have been judged NOW. So will not go into the Lake of Fire.

(Rev 20:13)  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

(Rev 20:14)  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(Rev 20:15)  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


God Bless
Sandie
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2008, 09:22:58 PM »

From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.

God bless,

Alex

 
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EKnight

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 10:51:49 PM »

What does "Judged NOW" mean exactly?  And I have never really understood who exactly "the elect" are. 

Eileen
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Kat

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2008, 12:48:05 AM »


Hi Eileen,

The no. 3 article in the LOF series 'Judgment by Fire Must Begin at the House of God' has so much about the judgments, here is a section.

http://bible-truths.com/lake3.html -----------------------

but who is ultimately responsible for ALL things, including the tribulations and persecutions of believers? It is, of course, GOD

"Who works ALL things after the counsel of His Own WILL" (Eph. 1:11).

"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS that ye endure; Which is a manifest token [display] of [of WHAT?] ... OF the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT [Gk: ‘just judging’] OF GOD!"

And for what grand purpose?

"... that ye may be counted WORTHY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, for which ye also SUFFER" (2 Thes. 1:4-5).

Just how much are we expected to give up and suffer for Christ in order to be worthy?

"And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than Me is NOT WORTHY of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is NOT WORTHY of Me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, IS NOT WORTHY OF ME" (Matt. 10:36-38).

What does God consider a "reasonable" sacrifice to become members of the Family and Kingdom of God?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your BODIES A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service" (Rom. 12:1).

Make no mistake about it; if you will follow Jesus Christ, you will experience many of the hardships spoken of in these Scriptures. I am not saying that it is necessary to teach youngsters in Sunday School these deeper truths of God, but if we adults are to ever go on to maturity in Christ, it’s time to get our heads out of the sand!

The good news is that if we have a volunteering heart and accept the judgments of God on our lives now, we will be sure to avoid the harsher judgment on the whole world reserved for "that day."

"For if we would JUDGE [Gk: diakrino=THROUGH JUDGE, separate thoroughly, to withdraw, discern, judge] OURSELVES [members of the called-out House of God], we should not be judged [Gk: krino=judge, set right, decide, to try, condemn, punish]. But when we are judged [the same Greek word krino as used above with reference to judging the wicked world] we are CHASTENED of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [Gk: katakrino, an adverse sentence] with the world" (I Cor. 11:32).

Pay close attention to the three Greek words, diakrino, krino, and katakrino, used in this verse.

There is so much contained in this verse. There is a judgment now on God’s saints. We are judged by being "chastened of the Lord." What does that mean? "Chastened" is from the Greek word paideuo and here is what it means: "to train up a child, i.e. educate, or (by impl.) discipline (by punishment): -- chasten (-ise), instruct, learn, teach" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary p. 54).

Are you following this amazing use of words? You will now learn a marvelous truth of Scripture that is not being taught in any theological seminary that I am aware of anywhere in the whole world.

We are "judged" by God, and the vehicle that God uses to do this judging is "chastening." In other words, we are "judged" by God by being "trained up" like a child, by being "educated," by "discipline" involving "punishment," "instructed," by which we "learn," and all these "teach" us WHAT WE SHOULD BE.

There is no doubt that some of this chastening can be harsh, sorrowful, and painful. Much of it is not very pleasant and God admits as much to us. And it is not possible for one single son of God to avoid this chastisement!
------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat


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indianabob

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2008, 01:17:21 AM »

From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.

God bless,

Alex
= = = =

Kathy,

Well said and helpful.

Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.

Alex:   Do I misread what you meant to convey?

Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.

I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.

Kindly, Bob
 
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2008, 01:48:37 AM »

From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.

God bless,

Alex
= = = =

Kathy,

Well said and helpful.

Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.

Alex:   Do I misread what you meant to convey?

Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.

I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.

Kindly, Bob
 

The reason i believe it is one ressurection, with two groups is merely from what i've been able to understand.

John 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Notice this passage states that All the dead hear his voice. Which we know is like the sounding of a trumpet, and the dead rise. How many? Half? Well, it says All the dead hear his voice so i'm ASSUMING it's ALL THE DEAD who rise. So it sounds like one ressurection for all. I think the enfaces is on the fact that their are two groups.

Here are a few more versus in John that talk about THE ressurection.

John 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

I will admit, i don't understand why we are given "the FIRST resurrection" in revalation. The first? As opposed to what? The second? That's what i don't understand. Why say the FIRST if their is only ONE? Seems rather redundant. However perhaps i am not seeing something clearly on this. Maybe someone with alittle bit more understanding can clarify or share what they think on this matter.

I know their are two groups for certain. I believe their is one ressurection, i could be wrong because like i stated above, revalation is a bit tricky on that.

God bless,

Alex
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 01:56:19 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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AK4

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 04:31:51 AM »

From what i can read and understand, their is only one ressurection. It's just that their are two groups of people in this ressurection. The elect and the world. Depending on which group you fall into, dictates how you will see THAT ONE ressureciton. A ressurection of life or a ressurection of judgement. The elect as mentioned above, are being judged now, and will not be harmed by the second death [the lake of fire] because they become the lake of fire as is our God, a consuming fire.

God bless,

Alex
= = = =

Kathy,

Well said and helpful.

Now, what about Alex's point that there is only ONE resurrection period?
It appears that Alex believes that all will be resurrected together, some to life and some to judgment.

Alex:   Do I misread what you meant to convey?

Please add more detail regarding the timing of the resurrections, if we know, and the purpose of having them together or separate by some time period for the reason perhaps of dealing with those who live over into the Kingdom age.

I don't wish to speculate too much, but I think this topic bears a little more discussion to achieve some clarity.

Kindly, Bob
 

The reason i believe it is one ressurection, with two groups is merely from what i've been able to understand.

John 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Notice this passage states that All the dead hear his voice. Which we know is like the sounding of a trumpet, and the dead rise. How many? Half? Well, it says All the dead hear his voice so i'm ASSUMING it's ALL THE DEAD who rise. So it sounds like one ressurection for all. I think the enfaces is on the fact that their are two groups.

Here are a few more versus in John that talk about THE ressurection.

John 11:24 "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

I will admit, i don't understand why we are given "the FIRST resurrection" in revalation. The first? As opposed to what? The second? That's what i don't understand. Why say the FIRST if their is only ONE? Seems rather redundant. However perhaps i am not seeing something clearly on this. Maybe someone with alittle bit more understanding can clarify or share what they think on this matter.

I know their are two groups for certain. I believe their is one ressurection, i could be wrong because like i stated above, revalation is a bit tricky on that.

God bless,

Alex

I believe the same thing, but i am trying to find scripturally that the word resurrection might have another meaning...

In Rev. could it be a rise to the state of mind in heaven for those that are elected?  While the others arent yet?

Those that have been resurrection from the dead (spiritually) out of babylon?

Im just thinking out loud right now without thinking.  I dont know

Anthony
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hillsbororiver

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 10:20:57 AM »

An interesting topic.....

I tend to lean toward at least two resurrections, reasons being the testimony of the harvests  and feasts, are they only speaking of crops and meals or is there a spiritual significance regarding the salvation of man hidden in within?


1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

What about those who are not His elect at His return?

Job 33:29  Lo, all these things worketh God oftentimes(6471,7969) with man,
 
Job 33:30  To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.

H6471
פּעמה    פּעם
pa‛am  pa‛ămâh
pah'-am, pah-am-aw'
From H6470; a stroke, literally or figuratively (in various applications): - anvil, corner, foot (-step), going, [hundred-] fold, X now, (this) + once, order, rank, step, + thrice, [often-], second, this, two) time (-s), twice, wheel.


H7969
שׁלשׁה    שׁלושׁה    שׁלשׁ    שׁלושׁ
shâlôsh  shâlôsh  shelôshâh  shelôshâh
(1,2) shaw-loshe', (3,4) shel-o-shaw'
The last two forms being masculine; a primitive number; three; occasionally (ordinal) third, or (multiplicative) thrice: -  + fork, + often [-times], third, thir [-teen, -teenth], three, + thrice. Compare H7991.

Peace,

Joe
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OBrenda

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 10:31:29 AM »

Question if I may?

During the 1000 years will we know it is the 1000 years?
 ???
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Kat

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 11:42:29 AM »


One resurrection, but called by two different names.

John 5:28-29  Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Act 24:15  I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

In this Scripture it says "for the hour 5610 is coming." 

G5610 hour - hōra
Apparently a primary word; an “hour” (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

Now what this indicates to me is that "a resurrection" of "all in the grave" will happen in a short period of time.  Jesus states here that "all who are in the graves" and this would mean the Elect and everybody else are raised at that time.  Because it goes on to state that this includes the first resurrection "the resurrection of life" and "the resurrection of condemnation."  This "condemnation" is judgment that will come upon the world at that time.

1Co 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
v. 32  But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

"The resurrection of condemnation" of the world is the great white throne judgment. 

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

I believe those left alive on earth at this time will be brought to the white throne judgment and be judged with this rest of the world, only an opinion.

But there will be an order of things at that "hour."

1Co 15:23  But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

1Th 4:15  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
v. 16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
v. 17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

So the "first (foremost) resurrection" (Rev. 20:5) takes place, all of the Elect have joined with Christ. 
Now at the same "hour," but later the rest are raised and judged at the great white Throne judgement (back up in John 5:28).

G4413 first - prōtos

Contracted superlative of G4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance): - before, beginning, best, chief (-est), first (of all), former.

It is one great event, in one day.

Mat 25:31  "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
v. 32  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
v. 33  And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
v. 34  Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46  And these will go away into everlasting punishment (chastening eonian), but the righteous into eternal (eonian) life."

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 09:22:17 PM by Kat »
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chuckt

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Re: 2 ressurections?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 01:01:13 PM »

Last night i tossed and turned for hrs being reminded of things i did as a non beleiver and even as a beleiver, i was""tormnented"" and disgusted at myself.

was this God or the enemy?

all i know is the more i see my true self the more i need Christ, the more i see the need for Chrit the only hope we have,

chuckt
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