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Author Topic: Two scriptures are tripping me up!  (Read 2451 times)

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Richard D

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Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« on: September 17, 2008, 03:54:33 PM »

Eph 1:4  even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

This scripture  Eph 1:4 is saying  I should be holy which means called out ,this I understand but without blemish which means without imperfection. I have imperfections not only in in character but even in appearance too.

I read a scripture but donít remember where it is I will start writing them down as to give them out on my post but Jesus said be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Then he said to the women caught in adultery, go and sin no more.

 I know I just been through this on this forum and I felt secure again but scripture is telling me I need to be perfect without imperfection. Well, that leaves me out big time! Then it says to sin no more. Unless God changes me I would be and idiot to think I will not sin again, just not happening although I wish I would not sin again.

Then Rayís free will teaching tells me that Jesus himself did not have free will so I must conclude that God the father did not give Jesus any causes that would cause him to sin and I thank God for that or we would all be lost in our sins.

Eph 1:5  having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

How does one know if they are foreordained, is it like buying a raffle ticket for a good cause of course and having to wait and see if one wins? Or does one know if one is foreordain by oneís own life meaning they are perfect and do not sin.

I ask Jesus into my life so why am I receiving causes that cause me to sin if I am indeed a part of the elect but if apart of the many then I understand heís just not dealing with me now but will at a later time. I donít understand why I keep going back to this thought but I do.

I once hear a Christian say or so called Christian say being a Christian is the easiest thing to be. If that is true then I canít be a Christian but why would God give me a desire?
I read also another scripture that says our God is not a God of confusion. Is God trying to tell me something here?



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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 04:34:59 PM »

One thing that helped me was study on the parable of the prodigal son.

Keeping in mind if we are the elect, we will be Judges.

Both Sons[called & chosen] will have an inheritance [saved] but which one would you choose to judge you?
And with your answer, you will understand why God would have us struggle with sin.

Hope it helps a little,


Richard D

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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 05:00:38 PM »

It does help Brenda; my understanding is not perfect and has uncertainties. I do know this, if I go back to the church which I came from I would have no chance ever understanding what God wants or expects of me. Maybe one has to be a Christian for many years to understand with confidents!

Thank you for responding to my post it does give me something to think about.


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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2008, 05:09:09 PM »

 Is God trying to tell me something here?


Act 14:22  Confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


I can only suggest you pray for faith and patience, slow things down a bit, you cannot consume an entire side of beef in one sitting, there is much meat to digest to be sure but we can only process so much at a time.

Perhaps being a "Christian" in a denomination is an easy thing to do but getting saved is anything but easy, Ray has a great article from the Nashville '05 Conference entitled "How Hard Is Getting Saved?" Here it is;,3849.0.html

Peace (and patience) to you Brother,




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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 06:44:23 PM »

Hi Richard,

I have been where you are and what I've learned to do is to use the verses as a spiritual gage. I have 10 pages of verses like those you post. All those verses showed me the "beast" and showed me where I miss the mark. They are the very verses God used to teach me and call me out of the church. I once thought I was ok within the church teachings. I was forever saved by my confession of faith. Those verses showed me just how wrong I was. I could not measure up.

I believe all those verses are true and I press on to reach the high calling of God. I thank God for those scriptures that crush my self righteousness. It can be frightening and confusing to read those verses, but I would have never even realized that I was the beast if God hadn't opened my eyes by using those verses.

He is the author and finisher of our faith. Be still and know that he is God.

Richard D

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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 08:50:45 PM »

Hello Hillsbororiver, the scriptures you used are a comfort to me. I keep meditating on my dilemma. Once I believed in eternal damnation but no longer believe that heresy with ease. Maybe Iím trying to save myself without realizing it, could be a part of a false teaching thatís still embedded in my memory. Jesus can save us with our help, of course if salvation has anything to do with me its over.

I think this is my problem but I know not how to let that mentality go. Of the heresies that Ray had pointed out I few I let go of, such as I no longer believe I have free will, also I donít believe in hell. But some of these other false doctrines are not so easily done away with.

M.G. I thank you much for sharing youíre experiences with me concerning this. I understand what youíre saying. I like that spiritual gauge analogy. I read one scripture and I feel great, another scripture and I feel condemned. I can honestly tell you I know what a yoyo feels like.

                                                Thank you both. In His Love . Richard.


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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2008, 03:57:52 AM »


   Do not fret. What your asking and going through is a process. A lot of the confusion comes from the Babylon teachings that still remain in us. It is not going to be a one time experience or a total revelation in one moment. Continue on and reread Ray's writings. The scales will come off.


Dave in Tenn

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Re: Two scriptures are tripping me up!
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2008, 04:01:02 AM »

There's audio for that lesson that Joe linked to as well.  If you're like me, hearing often sticks better than reading.  I think it's in two parts...look in the 'rays' audio' section.  Don't be too frightened of the title either.  

Php 1:6  I am convinced of this, that the one who began a good work among you will bring it to completion by the day of Christ Jesus.
Php 1:7  For it is only right for me to think this way about all of you, because I have you in my heart. Both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, all of you are partners with me in grace.
Php 1:8  For God is my witness how much I long for all of you with the compassion of Christ Jesus.
Php 1:9  And this is my prayer, that your love will keep on growing more and more in full knowledge and perfect insight,
Php 1:10  so that you may be able to determine what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
Php 1:11  having been filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God.

Amen, Jeff.
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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