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Author Topic: Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax  (Read 5059 times)

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sanderson1769

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« on: May 22, 2006, 07:34:41 AM »

This Sunday night I preached a sermon that systematically dismantled the hoax of a pre-tribulation rapture. I gave a clear simple chronology of the book of Revelation, which corresponds exactly with the chronology given in the Olivet discourse (Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21).

The key to understanding the chronology of the book of Revelation is understanding that chapters 1-11 are in perfect chronological order, and that chapters 12-22 are in perfect chronological order. In both of these chronologies God describes the rapture as being after the antichrist’s 3 ½ year regime but before God’s wrath is poured out in the seven trumpet/vial judgments.

Rapture scriptures:

Revelation 7:9-17
Revelation 14:14-16
Matthew 24:29-31
Mark 13:24-27
Luke 21:25-28

Listen to the sermon to get the complete picture…if you dare. Here’s the link:

Sincerely,

Pastor Steven L Anderson
Faithful Word Baptist Church


Preaching via links is against Forum Rules, I edited out the links in this post. Please respect the rules of this Forum.

Thank you,

Joe
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zander

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2006, 08:06:46 AM »

There is no such things as THE Antichrist, as if there is only one.  Thats not true

1 John 2:18 says - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist (not THE antichrist) shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

There is also no such thing as a rapture.  PLease show me, if YOU dare, where in the scriptures it says the word "rapture"???

Mr Pastor Anderson, remove yourself from the Church whore and read and beleive God's scriptures.
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Andrew

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2006, 08:09:20 AM »

What are you talking about? :?

Here are your keys to understanding Revelation, and for that matter, all of Gods Word.




"Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural (physical); and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 15:45)
 
"Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION (to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty) upon whom the ends of the world are come" (1 Cor. 10:11)
 

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of an private interpretation (Gk: 'is becoming it's OWN explanation')" (2 Pet. 1:20)
 

"The words that I speak unto you, they ARE SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63)
 

"In the mouth of TWO OR THREE WITNESSES shall every word be established" (2 Cor. 13:1 & Rev.11:3)
 

"...comparing (or: 'matching') SPIRITUAL things with SPIRITUAL" (1 Cor. 2:13)
 

"Thou art righteous, O Lord, which ARE and WAS and SHALL BE" (Rev. 16:5, also Rev. 4:8 & 11:17)

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and KEEP those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
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berny

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pastor
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2006, 08:24:36 AM »

hi pastor,
i was quite surprised to see you on this site.Have you read ray's papers?what do you think? i was looking for the truth when i found this site. i have spent many years not excepting what many churches out there teach and this site was a refreshing change. i am still reading and learning. i think god helps you find the truth when you look hard enough.      
good luck
berny :o
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shibboleth

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2006, 11:11:45 AM »

I PMd this man a few when he first posted on our board. I told him we believe in universal salvation and asked him to read Rays material if he wanted to know what we believe. I did not get a reply from him, so I assumed he didn't care.

Now, he is posting occassionally  on different subjects and leaves his website so we can go see what he has preached in his church.

I haven't a clue why he comes here. But maybe he's one of gods chosen and doesn't know it yet?
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Mickyd

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2006, 11:29:14 AM »

Quote from: shibboleth
I haven't a clue why he comes here. But maybe he's one of gods chosen and doesn't know it yet?


Or maybe he's one of the tares of the field and just doesn't know it yet.
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Falconn003

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2006, 11:40:01 AM »

Or maybe he has just about hanged himself with the rope given to him by the Mods........

Either way he continues to not follow the forum rules as typical of heresy believers and preachers......



Rodger
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Craig

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2006, 11:47:10 AM »

Quote from: Falconn003
Or maybe he has just about hanged himself with the rope given to him by the Mods........


Strike 2

Craig
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Mickyd

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2006, 12:21:56 PM »

Quote from: bobbys43


Doctrinal Statement

We believe that God has preserved His Word in the King James Bible.

We believe all Scripture was given by inspiration of God, and that God also promised to preserve His Word. Divine inspiration is of no value to Christians without God's promise of preservation.

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith. Being born again by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is the only requirement for salvation.
We believe in the eternal security of the believer (once saved, always saved).

We believe that the unsaved will spend eternity in torment in a literal hell.

We believe that Jesus is God, and that Jesus Christ was begotten by the Holy Ghost of the virgin Mary.

We believe only in the local church and not in a universal church.

We reject the teaching of Calvinism and believe that God wants everyone to be saved.

We are Non-dispensational.

We believe that life begins at conception (fertilization) and reject all forms of abortion including surgical abortion, "morning-after" pills, IVF (In Vitro Fertilization), birth control pills, and all other processes that end life after conception.

We believe that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination which God punishes with the death penalty.

We oppose worldliness, modernism, formalism, and liberalism.


bobby


Matt 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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Daniel

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2006, 12:30:38 PM »

What I have noticed in most "statements of faith" is the one that means something. Seems to contain everything but, notice that?

This has nothing to do with this inparticular but can you imagine a man in the pulpit pressing the importance of this verse (think about this because we are talking about the apostles confidence in God for them to rely soley on God here).

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need NOT that ANY MAN teach you[/u]: but as the same anointing "teacheth you of all things", and IS TRUTH, and IS NO LIE, and even as IT hath "taught you", YE shall ABIDE IN HIM. [/u]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this verse from the apostle John. The complete confidence and assurance that if they trust God to teach and not man how important it is to trust that He can indeed teach us. To not neglect the gift in us, or what the Spirit of Christ is teaching us who abides in us and is true and no lie. I mean there are no alterior motives in this verse except to instill a confidence in God many others try to take away to place on themselves. We see this all the time don't we? Of all the verses I could be thankful for this is surely one of them, believing in Him who is able to teach us.

Mary sat at HIS FEET to learn, her name means THEIR REBELLLION, thats an interesting name for HER who had chosen the BEST PART which would NOT be taken from her. Maybe it sums up the rebellion in NOT sitting at HIS FEET learning of and from Him. I thought that was neat. Martha means SHE WAS REBELLIOUS :shock:  When the Lord needs to adress your name TWICE :lol:

I don't ever remember the Lord saying "Mary, Mary" do you? but of a few like Martha and Saul I do.

Daniel
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shibboleth

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2006, 01:06:25 PM »

Mr. Sanderson says that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination which God punishes with the death penalty. My question for him is this. Why is homosexuality the only sin given for the death penalty?

In the OT a person could receive the death penalty for these offenses.
1. Cursing your Father and Mother.
2. Adultery and fornication.
3. Carrying sticks or other work on Sabbath.
4. Sacrificing your children to Molech. Lev.20
5. Having sex with animals.

Why does his church only list homosexuality as being fit for death penalty? I will write him and ask and see if he answers.
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lilitalienboi16

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2006, 01:49:25 PM »

This has got to be the strangest post ive seen in a while, heh.

Daniel that was a great post btw, i think i have to start reading on my own more often and pray for understanding instead of reading Ray's and Mikes articles, to see what the Lord reveals to me, and then read what they have to say :)
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zander

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2006, 02:18:05 PM »

i just want to know where he can miraculously find the word "rapture" in the scriptures......
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Mickyd

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2006, 03:38:37 PM »

Quote from: zander
i just want to know where he can miraculously find the word "rapture" in the scriptures......


1th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 
1th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is where the "Rapture" theory comes from...of coare they take this literally like everything else. They really need to check the definition of the word "Rapture".

rap·ture  
 
1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.
3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

The last definition is the one they choose.

[Obsolete French, abduction, carrying off, from rapt, carried away, from Old French rat, from Latin raptus.]

Rapture

1. a state of being carried away by overwhelming emotion; "listening to sweet music in a perfect rapture"- Charles Dickens [syn: ecstasy, transport, exaltation, raptus]
2. a state of elated bliss [syn: ecstasy]
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SandyFla

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2006, 05:49:02 PM »

Quote from: bobbys43
Here is the doctrine that Pastor Steve believes since he will not share on his own. This is taken from his web page:

We believe only in the local church and not in a universal church.


God believes in a universal church:

"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Revelation 5:8-10).

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb" (Revelation 7:9-10).
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chrissiela

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2006, 10:55:15 PM »

Quote from: Daniel
Mary sat at HIS FEET to learn, her name means THEIR REBELLLION, thats an interesting name for HER who had chosen the BEST PART which would NOT be taken from her. Maybe it sums up the rebellion in NOT sitting at HIS FEET learning of and from Him. I thought that was neat. Martha means SHE WAS REBELLIOUS :shock:  When the Lord needs to adress your name TWICE :lol:

I don't ever remember the Lord saying "Mary, Mary" do you? but of a few like Martha and Saul I do.

Daniel


When I read that I immediately thought of this, that I was reading earlier today:

    Luk 7:40  And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

    Luk 7:41  There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

    Luk 7:42  And when they had
nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

Luk 7:43  Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Luk 7:44  And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into THINE house, THOU gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

Luk 7:45  THOU gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

Luk 7:46  My head with oil THOU didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

Luk 7:47  Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; FOR SHE LOVED MUCH: but to whom little is forgiven, THE SAME LOVETH LITTLE.

Luk 7:48  And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luk 7:49  And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luk 7:50  And he said to the woman, Thy FAITH hath saved thee; go in peace.[/list:u]

Which also reminds me of Mat 25:32-45.

In part:

    Mat 25:42  For I was an hungred,
and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Mat 25:43  I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[/list:u]

Blessings,
Chrissie
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theyachtman

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2006, 12:52:36 AM »

Interestingly, Pastor Steve is on the same path I was  about 6 years ago.  It was just after debunking the pretrib rapture that was I able to realize that the whole rapture theory was debunkable!
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Daniel

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2006, 02:30:28 AM »

Chrissie this is my favorite Amen girl!

Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

I have been doing a study on judgment given this great thought. The Father entrusted all judgment to the Son, the Son says, "I don't judge anyone" :lol:  But if He judges His judgment is just, "by our OWN words". I see alot of our own ways turned back on us in order to learn. Judging the secrets of mens hearts. I was looking at this verse and I thought, "what if before judgment is given unto the saints they need to learn how to rightly judge before entrusted with it?

Heres a few I'm looking at that are changing for me

Ever notice these? Notice the "wording" being convinced and judgment in both examples?

Jude 1:15 To EXECUTE JUDGMENT upon all, and to CONVINCE all that are ungodly among them[/u] of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their HARD SPEECHES which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.[/u] Interestly if he's coming to be glorified in his saints 1Peter 4:14 on "their part" he is evil spoken of, but "on your part" he is glorified. 2Thes 1:8-10 goes further.

1Cr 14:24 But if all prophesy (EDIFY one another in love?) and there come in one that believeth NOT, or one unlearned, he is CONVINCED of all, he is JUDGED of all

1Cr 14:25 And thus are the "SECRETS OF HIS HEART" :shock:  made MANIFEST; and SO FALLING DOWN ON HIS FACE  he will WORSHIP GOD :wink:  and REPORT that God is IN YOU of a truth. :idea:  Gal 1:24 And they glorified God IN ME.

Romans 6:15 In THE DAY when GOD shall JUDGE the SECRETS OF MEN :idea:  by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL.  :idea:

Maybe judgment is given to the saints when they LEARN not to judge at all :lol: That is a nice thought though huh? I'd be in a DEEP FRYER if I were judged by what has presented itself out there :shock:

Daniel
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Craig

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Pre-tribulation Rapture Hoax
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2006, 11:08:53 AM »

Quote from: theyachtman
Interestingly, Pastor Steve is on the same path I was  about 6 years ago.  It was just after debunking the pretrib rapture that was I able to realize that the whole rapture theory was debunkable!



That was the first card that fell for me too.

Craig
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