Healing Hankies

[shibboleth]

Acts19:11-12 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul. So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Of all the scriptures quoted by faith healers, this is one of their favorites. IHandkerchiefs are offered in many different colors and sizes. But the faith healer always makes a pledge that something wonderful will happen to you if you just call and leave your address so it can be sent to you. I realize the scriptures are misused to make money off of unsuspecting people.

My question is, how do we apply this scripture spiritually? What are the special miracles by the hands of Paul spiritually? And what is the significance of the handkerchiefs and aprons. I found no help from any communtraries I looked into.  The word handkerchief is used only in this verse, so I have no clue how to understand these verses.
Anyone have any insight into their meaning?

[Daniel]

shibboleth,

This is a great question, hopefully the Lord willl give some insight here, I don't have any :oops:  When I looked up the verse you posted, I was drawn to the word "special". I know what Strongs says it means but it can't be right :?:

Does anyone know what that word means? Theres two definitions by it. I'll be curious to see what others add here.

Daniel

[JesusOnly]

Besides, powerful deeds, not the casual kind, God did through the hands of Paul  (Concordant Literal Translation)

mighty works also -- not common -- was God working through the hands of Paul  (Young's Literal Translation)

And God wrought no ordinary miracles by the hands of Paul  (Darby)

Them be other translations of that verse.

------------------------------------------------

The only thing that comes to my mind is the example of the men who tried to mimick Pauls power by casting out demons (keep reading the text)

Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

lol.  Can you imagine?  Adjuring Paul's Jesus!!  Read on....

And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

They could name Paul and the Lord he served...but, oh oh

And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Their nakedness was revealed and wounded (shamed?)

Hmm...I would conclude that the real power of Jesus is revealed in servant who knows him by experience and not by some other means.

Even the unusual way it happened through Paul shows it may not be necessarily through word or deed...the power just flows!!

And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

[gmik]

I would love to know any spirtual application.  I sent away one time :oops: - for a prayer cloth-point of contact- they said it would help your faith if you touched it or put it under your pillow. I mailed it to my sister in law and it never arrived-she never got it.  I thought it might help her cancer. I was sincere but had no clue as to any deep meaning.  It is in the Bible, the preacher said it, so there- I bought it.  My sister in law did eventually pass away from the cancer. Of course I went into guilt thinking if only I had sent her another cloth. Thank God, I see now that it is all God and his timing and purpose.

[Mystikalman80]

I submitted twice.

[Mystikalman80]

Hello,

 I highly disagree with using 'Point-of-Contact' for healing.

Matthew 9:20 - 21(NIV)

Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of this cloak. She said to herself, "If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed."

Luke 7:2 - 10

The Faith of the Centurion

1When Jesus had finished saying all this in the hearing of the people, he entered Capernaum. 2There a centurion's servant, whom his master valued highly, was sick and about to die. 3The centurion heard of Jesus and sent some elders of the Jews to him, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4When they came to Jesus, they pleaded earnestly with him, "This man deserves to have you do this, 5because he loves our nation and has built our synagogue." 6So Jesus went with them.
     He was not far from the house when the centurion sent friends to say to him: "Lord, don't trouble yourself, for I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. 7That is why I did not even consider myself worthy to come to you. But say the word, and my servant will be healed. 8For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."
9When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, "I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel." 10

I belive you don't need physical contact.  I have seen preachers give out 'Pryer-Cloths' and I just shake my head.

-Nadeem

[Andrew]

Joh 6:63  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskillfull in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24  For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25  But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


1Co 13:11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Phi 4:17  Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
Phi 1:11  Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23  Meekness,[/b] temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Eph 5:9  (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.



2Pe 1:5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Phi 1:9  And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;

1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

[jennifer]

The significance of the handkerchiefs and aprons were to show non-believers that the Lord was working with the Apostles and confirming their message by accompanying signs. (Mk. 16:20)  In Acts 14:3 we see the Lord bore witness to the message about his love and kindness by enabling them to perform signs and miracles.  This speeded up the process of growing the early Christian community.  The Jews would have remembered Exodus 7:19 where God commanded Moses to use his staff to turn the rivers of Egypt into blood as well as Elisha's staff being laid upon a child's face to bring the child back to life (2 Kings 4:29).  The miracles from the handkerchiefs and aprons would have shown the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah they should be turning to.  Additionally, in Acts 5:15 we see where the sick were laid in the street so that perhaps the shadow of Paul might fall on them and cure them by their faith.  Two other examples of faith in Jesus were manifested in Matt. 9:21 (the woman with hemmmorge) and Matt. 14:36 (sick touching the fringe of Jesus' robe).
We know that these special gifts of the Holy Spirit were withdrawn after the apostles died.
Grace be with you.

[gmik]

Jennifer, could you please give us the scripture references that state that these gifts were withdrawn when the apostles died?  Thanks.

[jennifer]

The scripture is 1 Corn. 12:28, which lists the ranking of spiritual gifts: 1) apostles, 2) prophets, 3) teachers, 4) miracle workers, 5) gifts of healing, 6) ability to help others or power to guide them, 7) gift of tongues.  Verse 12:31 states the higher gifts are those you should prize.  
1 Corn. 13:8-10 indicates that prophecies fail, tongues cease, knowledge vanishes--which came about due to apostasy Paul mentioned in 2 Corn. 11:4,12-15 and in 2 Thes. 2:3, 1 Tim. 1:19-20, & 2:16-19.    John also mentioned antichrists appearing in 1 John 2:18.  If you read all of 1 Corn. 13:1-13 you will note that Love is the best gift of all.    Also see 1 Corn. 14:2-5, 14:22-tongues were for unbelievers, 14:24-25-prophecy was for believers, and 14:39.
The 12 apostles were commissioned by Jesus with these spiritual gifts. (Matt. 10:1, Mark 3:15)  The miraculous gifts that others received only manifested when one or more of the apostles were present (Acts 2:1, 43)
& (Acts 3:1-3, 16) or by the laying on of the hands of the apostles (Acts 6:5-6) (Acts 8:5-7, 14-18) (Acts 19:6).
A physical healing is shown in James 5:14 to involve the elders of the church anointing the sick person with oil in the name of Jesus along with prayer.
Spiritual healing was done through prayer offered in faith (James 14-16), being always cognizant those prayers must be in accord with God's will
and what must be.  An example of this is shown in Acts 10:44-47 where the Holy Spirit was poured out on Cornelius, his relatives and close friends, all Gentiles to whom Peter was speaking.  Their healing manifested in them speaking in tongues and acclaiming the greatness of God and thereby being baptised by Peter in the name of Jesus Christ.
The book of Revelation completed the Bible cannon and with the death of the Apostle John on the island of Patmos, these gits ceased to be transmitted.  
Christ's message to the 7 Churches (Rev. 1:11) given to John in Rev. 2:1-3:22 clearly shows the early workings of Babylon apostacy that now is in full force until the universal restoration (Acts. 3:21) (1 Corn. 15:27-28) & (Rev. 22:1-5, 12-13).

[knuckle]

Hi All------------

     I don't know how well this will be understood but I believe that the use of the cloths was to seperate the power of the Holy Spirit from Paul.Paul's message of sonship goes beyond "Christ crucified" to Christ in us.A manifestation of God's power out side or away from the apostles(through the use of these cloths) was to take the eye off the messenger and put it on the message it self.Remember Act 14:12  And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Act 14:13  Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

     These babes in Christ that Paul was sent to had to be shown that Paul was not the source of the power but that the Holy Spirit was.It also took away the idea that it was a sham as Paul didn't know whom the cloths were carried to until after the fact.----As for prayer cloths working today just like prayer if it be God's will it works but woe unto those folks who seek to make merchandise of God they will recieve much more than a love gift of not less than.... just my take on it.


                              much love--knuckle

[jennifer]

Hi Knuckle,
I'm trying to wrap your thoughts around my mind and was wondering whether you can show me a scripture to support your statement.  I'm still stuck on Rom. 15:17-19: " In union with the Messiah, then, I have reason to be proud of my service to God; for I will not dare speak of anything except what the Messiah has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience by my words and deeds, through the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit of God".
Did the separation also happen to the other apostles?
Grace be with you.

[knuckle]

Hi Jennifer--------


   My belief doesn't come from a single verse but from how carefully Paul deals with praise from those he ministered to. I had quoted acts 14--I think that what  the priests of jupiter tried to do really opened Paul's mind up that some out there would confuse the message with the messenger--take this verse for example--1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? ---  Paul is very short with them because they tried to elevate him to the status of Christ.That was (IMHO) terrifying to him. and was something  paul NEVER wanted to happen.

    Every letter Paul wrote started off with this kind of message---Paul was in a situation that the other Apostles were not---he went to the gentiles directly many times,pagan folk who were open to making paul a deity.Show them a miracle and they were want to make Paul a god.

 you quoted Rom. 15:17-19: which is exactly how Paul felt about it ---he was proud of his service to God but he wanted men to know he was just a lowly servant.

Much love---------knuckle

[gmik]

Knuckle, that is making sense to me- to separate him from the work that God was doing.
Jennifer, being from a pentecostal/charismatic background for 30 years I always wondered why baptists and bible churches said those things stopped.  Since it is in the same sentences with knowledge I assume you mean that all knowledge has stopped as well???
I have seen miracles and have had miracles in my own life so I think that the Is, Was, and Will be of God hasn't changed (I am the Lord, I change not) and that He is healing He was healing and He will be healing.  The change in me since I have come to BT is that it is all God's Will.
I used to think I had some hand in it---I need more Faith, I need to pray more, I need to help others more, I need to read the Bible more...I, I, I, I, :oops:   No, it is God who wills of His good pleasure and after the counsel of His own will.
If you read Ray he prays for miracles all the time, but sometimes it happens and some times it doesn't.

Unfortunately, miracles today are usually associated with TBN and those kind of charletans.
I do know, that when My sister in law was going thru cancer,we would have tried anything to get her healed. That is when I mailed her the hankie.  I would not do that now.

[knuckle]

Hi all--------

   gmik wrote---------I do know, that when My sister in law was going thru cancer,we would have tried anything to get her healed. That is when I mailed her the hankie


     I think that God(who knows our hearts and minds) sees acts of love like yours for your sister in law and are counted toward rightiousness.That is why some charlitan who trys to take advantage of human suffering and make merchandise of God will be called out sternly on this.


  much love----knuckle

[YellowStone]

Knuckle, that is making sense to me- to separate him from the work that God was doing.
Jennifer, being from a pentecostal/charismatic background for 30 years I always wondered why baptists and bible churches said those things stopped.  Since it is in the same sentences with knowledge I assume you mean that all knowledge has stopped as well???
I have seen miracles and have had miracles in my own life so I think that the Is, Was, and Will be of God hasn't changed (I am the Lord, I change not) and that He is healing He was healing and He will be healing.  ......

Gmik and Jennifer, after reading this entire thread I must admit that I believe there is a certain amount of truths in each view.

Jennifer, to your point, I believe that the plain unblantent healings of the apostles stopped very much in the manner as you stated. I have heard many claim to be healers, and of course there are many facts to seemingly prove that these would be holy healers are genuine, but I think we all no that if they were as they say, they would not need the money they preach for.

Gmik, sometimes I think miracles occur daily but we don't see them because they are outside of our little world. I was involved in a bike accident once, and bled so much that bleedign stopped because there was no more blood to bleed. Only thing I didn't die, even though myfolks were told I coudn't survive. Of course I cannot remember this, but sounds like a miracle to me.

I am certain such things happen all of the time and I do not believe for an instant that God has not a hand because he is the author of life (our lives) and nothing happens without his word.

Well that's my two cents worth.

Have a good night all!

Yellowstone

[knuckle]

Hi yellowstone----------


  it sounds very much like a miracle to me too

[rvhill]

Jennifer, to your point, I believe that the plain unblantent healings of the apostles stopped very much in the manner as you stated. I have heard many claim to be healers, and of course there are many facts to seemingly prove that these would be holy healers are genuine, but I think we all no that if they were as they say, they would not need the money they preach for.



Yellowstone

The only reason we do not have people doing true healing now a days is simply, because no one living now has the same level of faith that the people living in the time of Jesus did. they did see and walk with him.

[YellowStone]

Jennifer, to your point, I believe that the plain unblantent healings of the apostles stopped very much in the manner as you stated. I have heard many claim to be healers, and of course there are many facts to seemingly prove that these would be holy healers are genuine, but I think we all no that if they were as they say, they would not need the money they preach for.



Yellowstone

The only reason we do not have people doing true healing now a days is simply, because no one living now has the same level of faith that the people living in the time of Jesus did. they did see and walk with him.

RVHill, I couldn't agree more; whether it be by the lack of faith for the healer to heal, or by the lack of faith that the sick and dying will be healed.  

But is this not all part of God's plan? Surprisingly, many doctors acknowledge healings that no man can explain. I would think that this would be a very humbling experience.

Praise be God for being so paient with us.

Yellowstone

[rocky]

Yellowstone[/quote]

The only reason we do not have people doing true healing now a days is simply, because no one living now has the same level of faith that the people living in the time of Jesus did. they did see and walk with him.[/quote]

Heb 11:1  Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.