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Accountability.
Richard D:
In the l.o.f. series I learned that God created evil and that God is responsible for every sin from Adam and Eve to present day. I understand that God Himself is not evil but uses evil to bring about His will for the good of all.
I also understand that our will is not outside of God’s will or that our will can not go contrary to God’s will. However we are held accountable none the less even though God brings the cause that causes our will to do His will because we are subjected to the will of God.
So, One is accountable to God for any and all sins committed while being subjected to vanity by God in the first place not that we were willing but by God’s will for His propose but has also given us hope too.
Now accountability means being responsible to somebody or for something
being. Now knowing eventually everyone will be saved as this is God’s will where does ones accountability come into play.
What I’m trying to figure out is this, (the wages of sin is death) or (the soul that sins will die). So is this the only payment concerning one’s accountability for sin. So in other words I say we pay for our sins simply by dying. But in order to be resurrected our sins have to be paid by Christ or there could be no hope left for us.
So if God says to me, if I sin I will die and I sin, then I have satisfied Gods judgment or justice once I die, So then I have paid the price God demands. Now Jesus died for the whole world and especially those who believe.
So because Jesus died for my sins too is this what allows God to resurrect me after death. But if Jesus did not pay the penalty for death on everyone’s behalf then death would be without end. Is this right or its how one should view it?
mharrell08:
Hello Richard,
Here is an excerpt from Ray's emails:
Thank you for your email and question.
There are a couple of reasons why God holds one accountable (not responsible--God takes the responsibility) for his sins even if he couldn't have done otherwise.
1. People who sin and have no desire to please God, do not believe in the first place that they do not have a free will regarding their sins. They believe that they ARE in control of their own destiny. See the example of that I use of the Assyrian king in the latter part of my letter to James Kennedy. The king took credit for conquering all the nations around him. He though HE was the mighty one. He thought HE planned and did these mighty acts by HIMSELF. God informs us that the king was merely a pawn (or an ax) in God's own hand doing the conquering. Our pride and vanity will be conquered by God.
2. We actually DO commit the sins that we commit. Whether we could have done otherwise is immaterial in as much as committing the sin makes us SINNERS. Think of sin as DIRT. It matters not HOW we got dirty--God is going to give EVERYONE A BATH LIKE IT OR NOT. God is God and He can and will do as HE pleases. And God pleases to put us through an experience of sin and death before He glorifies us with all the powers of the universe.
Sincerely,
Ray
And here is an excerpt from Ray's LOF series pt. 2:
Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!
And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:
"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifested in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:19-20).
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb [Christ] slain from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (Rev. 13:8).
Is anyone so naive and blind as to believe that God had prepared a Lamb, a Sacrifice, His SON, to be slain for the sins of the world at a time when theologians would have us believe God didn’t even KNOW there was shortly coming such a thing as SIN? God knew; God is smart! It was God Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil It was God Who placed it right in the middle of the garden to catch Eve’s eye. It was God Who made the tree particularly attractive and desirable. It was God who placed in the humans the desires and passions that would CAUSE them to partake of the forbidden fruit. It was God who placed Satan the serpent in the garden to tempt Eve and fill her head with the glories of enlightenment. It was God Who had ALREADY made preparation for their salvation through the slain Lamb of God.
Only ignorant and foolish theologians would ever charge God of being ignorant of the conduct and behavior of His own creation. It was not the temptation or deception entering INTO Eve that caused her to sin and bring separation from her Creator and God. It was what was already in her that caused her to sin. Proof:
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Mat. 15:19).
Notice it: "And when the woman saw [in her heart] that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eye [in her heart], and a tree to be desired [in her heart] to make one wise [an idol of the heart], she took [’For out of the heart proceed ... thefts...’] of the fruit thereof, and did eat" (Gen. 3:6).
Did you notice that last phrase "...and did eat"? It was not the "eating" of the fruit that made her a sinner -- she had ALREADY sinned by looking, lusting, and fantasizing about her potential wisdom. It was AFTER she sinned that she "did eat."
The good news is that all of our suffering is for a grand purpose and will ultimately bring huge rewards. Just two verses before, Paul tells us how God subjected the whole creation to these many evils and he gives us this comforting thought:
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [’groaning and travailing in pain together until now’ Ver 22] are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in US" (Ver. 18).
I would recommending reading the 2nd installment again [http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html] to find your answer as Ray is a much better teacher than I or most here.
Hope this helps,
Marques
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: Richard D on October 01, 2008, 01:26:49 PM ---
So because Jesus died for my sins too is this what allows God to resurrect me after death. But if Jesus did not pay the penalty for death on everyone’s behalf then death would be without end. Is this right or its how one should view it?
--- End quote ---
Bingo!
Yes Richard, the penalty would be annihilation, dead and always dead, Christ is Life, in Him we have the promise of perfection and immortality.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (Amazing how often Romans 8 has come up today)
Peace,
Joe
hillsbororiver:
Excellent response Marques,
I was typing as you were posting.....
Peace,
Joe
Kat:
Hi Richard,
Here is an excerpt from Ray second letter to Kennedy, it has a really good section on God being responsible.
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm --------------
RESPONSIBILITY
Not only are all the billions of heathens who never heard the gospel not responsible for their own salvation, but neither are we responsible for our salvation either. Nowhere in the Scriptures does God hold man responsible for anything. This is just another man-made doctrine that clashes with the Scriptures.
We can use the word "responsible" in a relative sense, such as: "It is a man's responsibility to provide for his family." We all know what the word means. But even if this man doesn't provide for his family, God will hold him accountable not responsible.
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When a minor (a child) commits a crime, even the unjust courts of our land do not hold him responsible. Is his crime simply overlooked? No. He must give an account for his actions. He is accountable. He might be the victim of a broken home, with a drunkard father, a prostitute mother, drug-hooked sisters, and gang-member brothers. Thus, he is not considered responsible. Nonetheless, he is still accountable.
"Now I am saying to you that, for every idle declaration which men shall be speaking they shall be rendering an account concerning it in the day of judging" (Matt. 12:36).
"For all of us shall be presented at the dais of God ... Consequently then, each of us shall be giving account concerning himself to God" (Rom. 14:11-12).
Read the dozens of scriptures where we are likened not only to "children," but to "little children." God is dealing with mankind as minors. He holds them accountable, but nowhere does God hold man responsible. Show me one Scripture.
The church can only see the relative in God's word. They fail to see that God is behind everything in the "absolute."
" ... according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:11--Concordant Literal New Testament).
The only One in the universe Who is responsible [able to respond] is God And so, God takes full responsibility for everything even though He holds man accountable for his deeds. Man is accountable for his deeds, not because he could have done otherwise, but because he thinks he is responsible through his presumed free will. Because he actually did the things he did. However, the Scriptures tell us that, "not in all" is this knowledge. Puny man really thinks he is in control of his own destiny. He really thinks he is a "god unto himself." And the Christian Church hasn't done very much to educate him out of this dilemma.
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These inspired words of the Apostle Paul are so clear that one has to be downright stubborn as to the truth, not to believe them:
"Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be protesting to me, then, 'Why, then, is He [God] still blaming? for who has withstood His intention?' O man! who are you, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded will not protest to the molder, 'Why do you make me thus?' Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:18-21)
God said He raised Pharaoh up for the express purpose of displaying His power in him (Ver. 17). It is an historical and Scriptural fact that God did this to Pharaoh. Ver. 18 then states that, consequently then, God is either "merciful," or "hardens" anyone He wants to. And whosoever they are have nothing to say about God's doing so.
Well, of course, if one is hostile against God and His word, his retort to this statement of Paul's would then be:
"WHY, THEN, IS HE STILL BLAMING?" (Ver. 19)
How can God hold people accountable for their sins when it was "He" [God] who brought about their condition? At least Paul's detractors had the sense to realize that if what Paul was saying is true, then they are solely at God's mercy (not their own ability) to ever change their condition, because their next statement is:
" ... for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?" (Ver. 19).
God intends for men to go against His will (that's how men become lost so that God can then save them), but no one, absolutely NO ONE, has ever gone against God's INTENTION! Hey, don't get angry with me - I'm just quoting the Scriptures.
Notice that Paul does not even deign to answer such carnal questioning of God's wisdom. His response is:
"O MAN! WHO ARE YOU, to be sure, who are answering again to God? That which is molded WILL NOT protest to the molder, 'Why do YOU MAKE me thus'?" (Ver. 20).
God is GOD, and He does what He pleases. God "pleases" to have many Sons. God "pleases" to save ALL humanity and ALL in the heavens (Eph. 11:10-11, Col. 1:20, I Cor. 15:22, 28). Who are we to question God's process? Since God is both loving and wise and also possesses all power, why should anyone question God's ability to accomplish His own Will?
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mercy, peace andlove
Kat
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