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Accountability.
Richard D:
Kat, Today I was meditating on these things and ask the Lord, why people must die if you paid the price. Then it was understood within me that the soul that sins it must die or the wages of sin is death.
O.K fine, I sinned, so I must die then, well, there is nothing I can do about it, so when I die I paid that which God required of me, which is death. So I say fine Lord, but I paid for my sins then, and you did not.
So, now it’s understood within me that Christ also paid for my sins as well. So I sinned and I must die but in my dying I must remain dead from age to age, that’s the price God demands.
So I say, O.K. When I die I’m dead and the dead know nothing. See, now in the grave there is no knowledge or pain or tears or any suffering. Well, while I’m alive I need God,
God provides me with the necessities of life. So I thank God and praise God because he sustains my life while I live and God provides for me my needs.
So, Jesus paid for my sins too you know, well, staying dead is not and option, I too will hear His voice one day and come forth from my grave. My life is difficult, life is difficult.
You know, I expressed more than once to God that when I die leave me be please. This was before I read Ray’s papers, you see, I was trying to elude hell’s pain. I believe Ray now and not the first things I was originally taught.
Ray makes so much sense to me, so now the fear of death has been lifted to which I owe thanks to Ray. That’s why when I first came here, I was very excited, not about life but knowing in death there is no pain or suffering, this was indeed good news to me.
You know, it seems like everyone wants to live forever, well, I can’t honestly say it’s my hearts desire. Yes, I love God and praise him most of the day, well its hard to not think about God you know, He’s always there.
When I read you’re response to me Kat, you said don’t blame me that’s what scripture says, Kat, I don’t blame you for anything. You’re a remarkable lady Kat, you are truly a blessing to this forum. The only thing I could blame you for is the love I see you operate with in every response you responded to.
You know Kat, sometimes, God does not let and awesome person see they are awesome, its true you know.
Thank you for responding to my post as it’s always appreciated. In His Love. Richard
aqrinc:
How can we be born again if we do not die first, the scriptures tells this same story over and over.
John 3:3:
Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
I Peter 1:23:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and stays for ever.
Matthew 25:34:
Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Acts 26:18:
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Hebrews:1 13-14
13-But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool?
14-Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
George.
Richard D:
George.
You have me thinking now. Prior to reading Ray’s papers and being apart of this forum with my belief in eternal damnation I pleaded with God to leave me dead when I died.
I also remember asking God to just plainly show me the truth too. God obviously cause me to think in this way.
After reading you’re response I started thinking, yes this must be symbolic of dying to self. You know if I’m willing to be dead then I’m willing to be dead.
It’s strange, I’m seeing this request in a different light. The meaning of my feeling is not literal but symbolic.
Thank you George. In His Love, Richard.
Kat:
Hi Richard,
This part of the article 'HELL Part E--HADES & THE SECOND DEATH' no. 16 in the LOF series should help you understand 'dying to self.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm
We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.
Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."
For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see. But there is still an enigma about this verse that we will cover a little later.
GOD'S ELECT MUST DIE THE SECOND DEATH THROUGH JUDGMENT
As a young man I used to think, horrors of horrors, God is going to throw people into a lake of fire which will be their SECOND death! It all seemed so frightful and final. Little did I know that we are all destined for some form of this same lake of fire/second death/judgment. Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
It's all in Rom. 8:13:
"For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
Paul puts people into two options (based on God's foreknowledge):
OPTION ONE is for the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because "it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).
OPTION TWO is for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
"As unknown, and yet well known; as dying [a spiritual SECOND death], and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (II Cor. 6:9).
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (I Pet. 2:24).
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I [am crucified] unto the world ['love not the world,' I John 2:15-16]" (Gal. 6:14).
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death" (Phil. 3:10).
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).
"Always bearing about in the body [our body] the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (II Cor. 4:10-11).
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments [worldliness] of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances" (Col. 2:20).
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).
"Mortify [deaden, put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col. 3:5).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
aqrinc:
My Brother Richard,
Here are some more Scriptures that address the accountability and GOD'S LOVE for us.
(Christ The Propitiation) not a kind of but (THE)
Galatians 2:20:
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
John 3:16:
For God so loved (LOVES) the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever (who-so-ever) believes (Faitheth) in him should not perish, but have everlasting (eonian) life.
II Timothy 1:7:
For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
I John 3:1:
Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
I John 3:2:
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
I John 4:10:
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
To GOD Be The Glory,
Geo.
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