Imitators of God...

[OBrenda]

Ephesians 5:1

So be imitators of God, as his dear children.
Live lovingly, just as the Messiah also loved us and gave himself for us as an offering and sacrifice, a fragrant aroma to God.

Do not let sexual sin, impurity of any kind, or greed even be mentioned among you, as is proper for saints.

Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk is totally inappropriate. Instead, let there be thanksgiving.
For you know very well that no immoral or impure person, or anyone who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has an inheritance in the kingdom of the Messiah and of God.

I was reading someting Kat had posted recently and these scriptures she shared stood out to me, {that usually happens when God is trying to teach me something.}

There are those I know whom I just can't get close to, because of the over use of extremely vulgar words.  It makes me ill inside, and I can't wait to be out of their company.  I'm not talking about the occasional selection of words that comes out when cut off by a rude driver, or stepping on a nail, or an adjective that describes a person without the need for long explanations....   I mean the constant stream of vulgar words & the subject matter they harp on.

I try not to hold myself up as the "standard".  So when I see something in someone else, I try to also look inward to see where I also may miss the mark.  Like so many areas in our walk we need to have balance.  My comfort zone may be offensive to someone else.  I would like to understand what the full sum of God's word is on humor, Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk?  Does do not mentioning Sexual Sin restrict "Saints" from discussing sexual topics?

I hope we can discuss this in peace, searching together!

Thanks for any help,
Brenda

[Rene]

Hi Brenda,

I don't have any help to offer you, but I do feel similar to you when it comes to being  offended by the "mindless" overuse of profanity.  It really bothers my spirit. 

However, there are some comedians who have very foul mouths that I find very entertaining (not their foul mouths, but their ability to make me laugh).  What's up with that!   I guess that means I still have a lot of purging to be done.

René

[Richard D]

Hi Brenda.

I like you're topic and cause me to think about a scripture I have read in the Bible and it goes like this( So as a man thinks so he is) I say if someone thinks about talking about sexual things with someone other than their spouse then what's their intentions?

If someone is not married and wishes to talk about sexual things then fornication comes to mind.

If someone who is married or not married wishes to talk about sexual things with others because they practice this behavior in an ungodly way trying to seek help I guess that's alright.

I believe if a person has to express themselves using profanity they have a poor command of the English language.

However what I'm blessed with here at Bible truths and reading Ray's papers really help me to understand why people do what they do and that also includes me too.

In this day and age I sometimes think we are living in the days of Noah, my ear hear things and my eyes see things that are wicked and evil but I also think to myself I'm apart of this evil and wickedness.

If God had not called me then I say only God knows what kind of man I would be.  Well I 'am what I' am by the grace of God. But I do know there dwells in me no good thing on my own.

I think it's like Ray was saying about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden under there perfect conditions would they of been happy? They had noting to compare anything good with.

Remember what Ray said about this all being and experience of good and evil. It's our father's way of making us all in His image.

I hope I was of some help to you Brenda but remember also I'm a man of little knowledge with the things of God.

You know Brenda, there is a part of me that does not want to die but also there is a part of me that does want to die because I know in the resurrection I'll be perfect then but I have to wait until my time comes.


                God bless you Brenda, In His Love. Richard. You're little brother.

[Kat]

Hi Brenda,

I found this at answers.com and it shows what is considered profanity in English, but look at the difference in Korean.

Profanity in different languages
For reasons of differing cultural, linguistic and historical backgrounds, the profanities of different languages place emphasis on different subject matter. In briefest summary, here is a list showing main differences or emphasis for some common languages:

English: sex, excrement, homosexuality, religion, incest, increasingly bigotry, racial/ethnic hatred, prostitution (son of a b----), and prejudice.

Korean: Impolite responses to people, esp. family and authority, references to animals, sexual terms.

Anyway I guess we all have this to deal with this to some degree. It really bothers me to hear God's name taken in vain and that goes for expressions such as "Jesus Christ, that was close!" or "Oh God, not again."

But the abusive swearing that people use run a close second, when words are used for abuse or intimidation or insulting of others.

I think we hear a lot of profanity when somebody is just using the words to get attention or to show off.  And then it seems to become habitual and used almost without thinking. That is really annoying, when profanity is attached to almost every sentence.

Actually it doesn't bother me so much when something bad happens like coffee spilling and people curse. It seems like a knee jerk reaction and not of their regular vocabulary.

And yes I have laughed at a comedian in spite of their foul mouth.

I think the amount you are exposed to swearing early on, conditions you to being more excepting of it. We all seem to have our different weaknesses and fortunately this does not seem to be one for me. Well that's my view anyway.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dave in Tenn]

Brenda, you know the NT passages where people of different practices and levels of maturity meet.  It seems to me in almost all of them that the onus is on those with a 'freer' disposition to curtail that for the common good.

As for your verse, I really think the "being mentioned among you, as is proper for saints" refers to those outside looking in, and is a seperate, but related, thought to what follows.  That's just my take on it.

Anyways, it's been a part of the renewing of my mind by the Word to have my language renewed as well.  It hasn't really been through struggle, but it's happened all the same.  That doesn't mean I forgot the words, but the profane babble that was part of me before is simply not there any more.

Looking at others--especially those in the world--I'm mostly content to leave them be.  I think the reasons why 'blue' comics are funny is because they hit on the truth.  The good ones are all about smashing idols themselves.  So, rightly or wrongly, I tend to look past the outward sign of vocabulary towards what pain or sin is driving them.  That's where we can minister without placing a law.

As for saints?  Wherever the line is, we probably ought not to venture too close to it.  There's temptation no matter which way you 'lean'. 

[OBrenda]

Rene....What a great way of explaining it..."Mindless" Yes that's it! 

I think most comedians make us laugh, because we see how foolish human nature can be.  Kind of like a parable.
I really appreciate humor, it takes a clever mind that I wasn't gifted with.    And it allows me not to take myself so seriously!

I've been working on not being so uptight, and being loving to all.  Understanding that we all have different personalities, and sensabilities. Some things are blatant to me, to be beyond appropriate, and yet just where that line is...? ( Good Advise Dave.)

When I was little I remember the word "Hell" was a bad word.  I understand better now why that should be a bad word    To watch most TV Evangelist, the way they throw the word around today, would have been sinful not that long ago. Kat it's good to find a common definition of what is considered "Profanity" because it can differ greatly.
 
I feel like minded with all of these posts, and Richard reminded me of a good point Pam (Freckle Girl) presented to me once. "What is the Motivation" {and for me it's not so much the words themselves or the subject matter, but the spirit behind it}  That is good wisdom to use.  To make some topics completely Taboo, could restrict our ability to grow in knowledge?

I appreciate the ability to open up to the counsel of those whom I respect.
Brenda

[E. Woods]

Ephesians 5:1

So be imitators of God, as his dear children.
Live lovingly, just as the Messiah also loved us and gave himself for us as an offering and sacrifice, a fragrant aroma to God.

Do not let sexual sin, impurity of any kind, or greed even be mentioned among you, as is proper for saints.

Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk is totally inappropriate. Instead, let there be thanksgiving.
For you know very well that no immoral or impure person, or anyone who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has an inheritance in the kingdom of the Messiah and of God.

I was reading someting Kat had posted recently and these scriptures she shared stood out to me, {that usually happens when God is trying to teach me something.}

There are those I know whom I just can't get close to, because of the over use of extremely vulgar words.  It makes me ill inside, and I can't wait to be out of their company.  I'm not talking about the occasional selection of words that comes out when cut off by a rude driver, or stepping on a nail, or an adjective that describes a person without the need for long explanations....   I mean the constant stream of vulgar words & the subject matter they harp on.

I try not to hold myself up as the "standard".  So when I see something in someone else, I try to also look inward to see where I also may miss the mark.  Like so many areas in our walk we need to have balance.  My comfort zone may be offensive to someone else.  I would like to understand what the full sum of God's word is on humor, Obscene, flippant, or vulgar talk?  Does do not mentioning Sexual Sin restrict "Saints" from discussing sexual topics?

I hope we can discuss this in peace, searching together!

Thanks for any help,
Brenda

Hello Brenda.
I feel the same way. I have a friend of about 20 years, that I can't stand to be around but a few min.
because of his language.
   I don't think the Bible restricts us from discussing sexual topics. After all didn't God creat sex?
The New Living Translation Bible, reads like this. " Let there be no sexual Immorality, Impurity,or
greed among God's people".   It dosen't say not to discuss these things,  but don't do them.
   Did I help any?  God Bless.   Earl

[WhoAmI]

No one can be different by faking. Unless they are really changed then limiting the amount of cuss words doesn't make them holy. There are also many people who are "married" but do not love their spouse and fake getting along because of financial reasons. I think God wants us to strive but he knows all the fakes as well. No one can hide behind acting or "marriage certificates" or any other outer show. I find making a religion of these verses makes us fakes.

[E. Woods]

No one can be different by faking. Unless they are really changed then limiting the amount of cuss words doesn't make them holy. There are also many people who are "married" but do not love their spouse and fake getting along because of financial reasons. I think God wants us to strive but he knows all the fakes as well. No one can hide behind acting or "marriage certificates" or any other outer show. I find making a religion of these verses makes us fakes.

Very true, but I think we should avoid such people when we can.  ll Tim.3:1-5.

[OBrenda]

Yes Earl....That does help.....Howdy Neighbor!

I also strongly agree not cussing doesn't make one Holy. (or better than someone else)
Or should we ever make a religion of a few scriptures.  That's why I mentioned the Sum of God's Word concerning this....   

But if I'm not faithful & understanding & respectful of the small things, how can I mature to the more important tasks before me?

I trust all of your input to help me rid the onion peels!
Brenda

[aqrinc]

There was a time when i was very comfortable with cussing and carousing. In my current workplace
many times the language get's pretty spicy and loud. I caught myself first getting upset, then
remembering how i was and could still be even though Christ in me Is In Charge. You will know when
it is the beast or The Lord in charge by the thoughts and feelings you have then.

Geo.

No one can be different by faking. Unless they are really changed then limiting the amount of cuss words doesn't make them holy. There are also many people who are "married" but do not love their spouse and fake getting along because of financial reasons. I think God wants us to strive but he knows all the fakes as well. No one can hide behind acting or "marriage certificates" or any other outer show. I find making a religion of these verses makes us fakes.

Very true, but I think we should avoid such people when we can.  ll Tim.3:1-5.

[daywalker]

Ever since I first started reading Ray's teachings, and began my journey "out of Babylon", I've noticed the profanity in others and myself a whole lot more. It's almost like this "emotional" side of me has emerged. (not that I cry all time or anything  , it's more of a sympathy thing)

Whenever I say or do something offensive, it hurts me. Even things that I didn't used to think were wrong. And when other people say profane things, it hurts me to. It doesn't make me angry really, it just hurts. The main thing I try to do is focus on making myself the "example" (so-to-speak) for others, and not telling them how they should act or speak. Of course, since this is only possible through GOD, I pray constantly for Him to mold my personality and purify my mind, so that I act and speak as He would have me to.

Ironically: the more I pray these things, the more things I notice in myself that are not Godly. (Yikes!) It's seriously overwhelming, the person I desire to be VS. the person I am... It's like GOD is saying to me, "As you can see, Christopher, we've got a TON of work to do here". 

It is very humbling, yet at the same time, it really helps me to understand that I am no better than anyone else.. ANYONE ELSE... and that only GOD can give a person the ability to be GOOD and do His Works.

The more I understand this, the better I feel, and the better I treat those around me.

Anyways, have a good one! 

[EKnight]

Thanks for this thread Brenda. 

I deal with someone who seems obsessed with sexual profanities on a daily basis.  Not a day goes by where something of a vulgar, sexual nature is not mentioned.  The problem for me is that there once was a time where I would have actively participated in such conversations.  Now I am trying to rid myself of that part of me and everyday is a challenge.  Sometimes, I myself, share too much about sex AND I have been known to be a "cussing sailor".  One of my kids (when they were younger)once said to me "mom, do you have tourets(sp?)?"  That's bad!  So even though I am working on it, I find myself falling back to those bad ways because it is in my life every single day in huge proportions.  If this person was overheard by a "boss" they would be thrown out the door without question.  On the other hand, there are qualities I admire about this person and I wish I had.

Eileen

[Martinez]

Hi OBrenda

I actually find listening to Babylonian Christian's blaspheming left, right and centre about how God is going roast most of humanity for not exercising their God given freewill to make a wise and timely decision in this life to say an eleven second sinners prayer to claim their free fire insurance much more offensive than any sexually explicit vulgarity or collection of choice words could ever be!

I guess they just don't realize how depraved that stuff is, but when turn around and get all offended at someone for saying a four letter word, talk about straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

[OBrenda]

God Bless You Martinez,
Amen and Thank God....I don't believe anyone here on this forum would swallow that particular camel. 
But many in Babylon Do.      I believe we would all agree it is much less offensive to drop the F-bomb, than to accuse God of sending people to hell.  I'm encouraged at the responses here are not, of the spirit of self righteousness, but responding with balance to how God leads our heart to respond to it, and with the scriptures define it.

It's the fine tuning of understanding, that is being searched on another thread about showing our light, vs not letting our right hand know what our left hand is doing. We all come here with different experiences, upbringing  & teachings from Babylon.  I pray my interest on this point, may bring freedom and ease with our family here, as we together search to hear what God's mind is on the matter.

I'm one who has heard many peoples opposing opinions through the years, I have my own, but I desire to honor and understand what God says about it.

Thanks Eileen, Daywalker & George, your comments reflect what I've been trying to process, with a different sensitivity to walking this out, without retreating to a cave 

[frecklegirl417]

  Brenda,

       I found this scripture after our discussion about this the other day. Read if like Mathew 15:18-19. it sums it up in a nut shell and may help you. It basically says things that come out of the mouth come from the heart. I hope this helps.

                                                 With God's Love and Understanding,
                                                               Pam

[Longhorn]

I better give my heart a bleach and hot sauce enema, and wash my mouth out with gasoline, lye soap, and kerosine.   

Love in Christ

Longhorn

[aqrinc]

Mat_15:11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the
mouth; this defiles a person."

Mat_15:17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?

Mat_15:18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this

These may help for scripture quotes.

Geo.

[Martinez]

Brenda,

       I found this scripture after our discussion about this the other day. Read if like Mathew 15:18-19. it sums it up in a nut shell and may help you. It basically says things that come out of the mouth come from the heart. I hope this helps.

                                                 With God's Love and Understanding,
                                                               Pam

Usually a person swears when their angry about something, at least that's when it escapes my lips, which is what makes think that it's just a symptom of a lot of built up anger as a result of unforgivness from when somebody hurt us in the past.

That would explain why the habit is so incredibly difficult to break!

[Richard D]

I was just reflecting on Ray's teachings about this all being and experience of good and evil for the propose of making us sons and daughters of God in His likeness.

Should we not be seeing or experiencing everything from sexual immorality to murder and every perversion under heaven.

And if not for the grace of God in our lives we all would be somewhere in between all these things.

It's God's purpose that this wickedness and evil exist in the first place. It's easy to love those who love us and to be kind to those who are kind to us but what about those who get in our face?

What about those who wish us all the harm on earth and talking to us with venom coming out of their mouth?

What about those who lie to us and rip us off?  How about those who plot our demise at our place of employment?

If we can love these then we have truly learned to love. Or how can I know what love is except I can find at least one person in this world to hate me?

We need all this evil and wickedness to understand the difference by comparison.

That's my take on it. 

                                      In His Love. Richard.