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Author Topic: What is milk, what is meat?  (Read 2445 times)

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Dave in Tenn

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What is milk, what is meat?
« on: October 08, 2008, 02:22:45 PM »

We see the terms used here in regards to scripture and understanding.  I know that at least the 'milk' part has basis in scripture, but I don't know if these terms are scripturally defined.  Any help?  Does Ray address this specifically?
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Amrhrasach

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 02:35:14 PM »

Here’s part of it anyway.

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

THE MILK BUT NOT THE MEAT

The "DEPTHS of God" in Christ Jesus are not tolerated in the Church today. They may teach the name of Jesus. They may teach that Jesus died for you. They may teach that there is forgiveness of sins in Jesus. They may teach that Jesus ONLY is your Saviour. But is the teaching of "Christ crucified" the "DEPTHS of God"? No, it is not. Paul did teach the Corinthians about "Christ crucified" (I Cor. 1:23). Paul also admitted that this was merely the "milk and not meat [solid food]" (I Cor. 3:2). The Corinthians had the "milk of God’s word," but this did not make them spiritual. Notice what Paul says:

"For ye [Gk: ‘ye’ means, all of you] are yet CARNAL" (Verse 3).

And what does it mean to be "carnal"? Answer:
"For to be CARNALLY MINDED IS DEATH (Rom. 8:6)!

Paul DID NOT; Paul COULD NOT, teach the Corinthians (and others) the "meat" of God’s word, because, "ye are yet carnal." Am I going too fast for anyone? Are you looking up these Scriptures that I am presenting? Have I misrepresented anything that Paul has written for "OUR admonition upon which the ends of the world are come" (I Cor. 10:11)? The Church as a whole has never understood the deep and spiritual things of God! Only "The FEW"—the "called" and "chosen"—"the ELECT."

The Galatian congregation was equally carnal to those of the Corinthian congregation. Paul asks them:
"Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect [mature] by the FLESH? " (Gal. 3:3).

They had a "first love," but they "LEFT thy first love" (Rev. 2:4). I, and everyone that I know, have sometime in their life, "LEFT their first love." If you have never "left your first love," I have serious doubts as to whether you ever had a first love. It is the natural progression of our maturing, according to the Scriptures.

A.
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Matt

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 02:53:29 PM »

Dave,
Amazing, I was just reading about this yesterday :).
Good reply Amrhrasach, my reply was going to be similar to yours.
I have crazy hours, this is a big reason I do not post often.
You guys are all so quick, I mainly enjoy reading what everyone posts!

Matt

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Douglas Wayne Thomas

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 04:18:24 PM »

Hebrews 5:12-14

     There's no excuse for a serious Christian to settle for milk instead of meat. "IN fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food (meat) is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil” 

     Mature Christians should be teachers (they lead by example). Teachers must be equipped to handle the word of truth (do they, can they, comprehend the true depth of what Jesus did for everyone)? As well, they must have knowledge and spiritual insight, which comes only through the reading and study of God's Word—plus constant prayer! Mature believers (meat eaters) are sensitive to the Spirit's leading. They understand the difference between right and wrong, important and inconsequential, good and evil.

Ray writes in The Lake of Fire - Part XI

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

      Can boys become men on their mother's milk? Neither can men become spiritually mature on things of childhood. Paul said when he was a child, he thought and acted as a child, but when he became a man, he said he put away childish things. The Christian Church today refuses to put away childish things. Here is the purpose for the Law of Moses in the Church:

      "Wherefore the law was [it was not past tense for Paul because he had matured] our schoolmaster [Gk: tutor or guardian] to BRING US UNTO CHRIST, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come [faith HAS now come] we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster [the law of Moses]" (Gal. 3:24-25).

      How is it that all the educated theologians with all their PhD’s can't understand this simple analogy. The law—the law of Moses, was our "schoolmaster." It WAS, it isn't any more. Why not? Because mature adults are no longer children. We have all had a schoolmaster in our youth. We were under them, subject to them, disciplined by them, taught by them. I am now 62 years old. Am I still under my grade school teachers? Of course not. Do I, however, try to remember the things I learned from my teacher? Why yes, of course. But as a man I am now subject to higher authorities. A person will never acquire a college degree if he never gets out of grade school.

As we grow as Christians we are weaned off of milk and onto meat, we go from being students to teachers.

Seeking to do God's will always,

Doug





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Richard D

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 06:55:06 PM »

Dave in Tenn.


Excellent question, I don’t have the answer but I’m keeping my eyes glued to this topic. Thank you for asking this question.

                                      In His Love. Richard.
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WhoAmI

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 02:42:22 AM »

The only problem I have with this "milk" supposedly coming from churches is that I don't see it as true "milk." The churches are wrong and don't teach the same Jesus, so how are some calling it "milk?" It may be "milk" but I don't think it is scriptural "milk." More like fake pagan milk. For me just because they use his name, Jesus, and talk of belief in him etc. That don't cut it because it isn't the same Jesus. I don't know Jesus just by his name but his voice. Many can come looking like Jesus but once the Jesus they tell you about starts talking he is no longer saying the same things the real Jesus did. The delusion is strong indeed.

Jeff
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aqrinc

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 03:30:31 AM »

Here are references to meat of the Scriptures. Hope this helps to clarify a very interesting subject.

I Corinthians 3:2:
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for till now you were not able to bear it, neither yet now are you able.

I Corinthians 10:3:
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

Hebrews 5:12:
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first
principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Hebrews 5:14:
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses
exercised to discern both good and evil. 

Geo.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 03:43:09 AM »

Jeff.  The delusion is strong, but its more than one-dimensional.  That's what makes Ray's task (and ours too) so daunting.  It's at least part of the reason the papers are so long too.   ;D  Most of us have come from beliefs and churches that were more than willing to at least consign 'other believers' to a lower status, if not prepared to cast them into hell for not getting it right.  When they can't even agree on what falsehoods to teach/believe, the only thing that binds them is basic 'milk' doctrines.

It's perfectly OK for a six-year-old to imagine God as an old man who looks like her grandfather (without the stubble and beer breath) sitting on a rock in the sky.  It's not OK for a 16 year old to 'see' God this way.  By the time you're 26 if you still see Him that way, you're seriously stunted.  It's the same God, for there IS no other God.  He is Who He is.  It's our understanding which is deficient, or our vision.

So I can see this progression of milk to meat...from immaturity to maturity...applying to many of the teachings and practices of the churches.  Surely some are just plain wrong...Hell being the prime example.  But some are not 'wrong', they are just insufficient to begin with and twisted for anybody who should have outgrown them.

Anyway, from the answers and quotes...maybe milk and meat aren't scripturally defined.  Maybe they have to be discerned like all the other symbols and parables.

Addendum:   Hebrews 5:14:  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

BINGO!
 

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

tinknocker

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 04:09:16 AM »

Hi Jeff,
What you wrote is true but I would like to expound on this so bare with me. You said;

The only problem I have with this "milk" supposedly coming from churches is that I don't see it as true "milk." The churches are wrong and don't teach the same Jesus, so how are some calling it "milk?"

We all started out as called and on the same milk. By the grace of God the milk was not taken away from the choosen/elect;
Mat 13:12  
       For whoever has, more will be given to him, and he will have more than enough. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

They do not know they are dying from malnutrition but they are  >:(
All we can do is pray for them, hoping that God gives them the desire to drink the real milk and more. That is my prayer for them.

Blessings
tinknocker
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WhoAmI

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 04:11:01 PM »

Jeff.  The delusion is strong, but its more than one-dimensional.  That's what makes Ray's task (and ours too) so daunting.  It's at least part of the reason the papers are so long too.   ;D  Most of us have come from beliefs and churches that were more than willing to at least consign 'other believers' to a lower status, if not prepared to cast them into hell for not getting it right.  When they can't even agree on what falsehoods to teach/believe, the only thing that binds them is basic 'milk' doctrines.

It's perfectly OK for a six-year-old to imagine God as an old man who looks like her grandfather (without the stubble and beer breath) sitting on a rock in the sky.  It's not OK for a 16 year old to 'see' God this way.  By the time you're 26 if you still see Him that way, you're seriously stunted.  It's the same God, for there IS no other God.  He is Who He is.  It's our understanding which is deficient, or our vision.

So I can see this progression of milk to meat...from immaturity to maturity...applying to many of the teachings and practices of the churches.  Surely some are just plain wrong...Hell being the prime example.  But some are not 'wrong', they are just insufficient to begin with and twisted for anybody who should have outgrown them.

Anyway, from the answers and quotes...maybe milk and meat aren't scripturally defined.  Maybe they have to be discerned like all the other symbols and parables.

Addendum:   Hebrews 5:14:  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

BINGO!
 



It is amazing to see what we thought was so good was nothing really. It is part of the process.

2ti 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. 

Onward to the meat!  :)

Jeff
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Matt

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 06:01:21 PM »

Yes, we should all learn to become "lactose intolerant" :D
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OBrenda

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 06:20:21 PM »

Yes, we should all learn to become "lactose intolerant" :D

 ;D ;D ;D

Great question Dave!
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aqrinc

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 08:40:11 PM »


But only for ourselves; remember we all start on milk so intolerance of milk may lead to same of the (milk drinker)
unless Christ In us Is The Teacher.

I Corinthians 3:1:
And I, brothers, could not speak to you as to spiritual, but as to carnal, even as to babes in Christ.

I Peter 2:2:
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby:

Geo.

Yes, we should all learn to become "lactose intolerant" :D
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Matt

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2008, 01:20:16 PM »

Relax,
It was a joke meant to remind us not to stay there (in the milk), as I am sure you may (or not I guess) have guessed from the cheesy grin.
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aqrinc

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Re: What is milk, what is meat?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2008, 02:39:35 PM »

Cheesy grin; got it (cheese)  :D

Geo. LOL.
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