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Author Topic: Does God have free will?  (Read 3193 times)

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Sozo

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Does God have free will?
« on: October 13, 2008, 10:46:24 AM »

Is it possible for God to be omniscient and also have free will?

If God is omniscient, then he knows everything that will happen.  What will happen is therefore a fact and can not be changed.  If this is the case, then God is not free to change what he already knows will happen.  However, if God has free will, then he is free to change events, but if he changes an event, then that event could not have been a fact in the first place.

It seems as if omniscience and free will can not coexist.   ???  This reasoning also suggests that the incompatibility of omniscience and free will is a necessary truth.  Does anyone have any insight they can share on this?
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Kat

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 11:48:10 AM »


Hi Jason,

Here are a couple of emials that I think may help with your question.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7871.0.html --------

  Dear Jerry:  The answer to your enigma is quite simple. We read in Malachi 3:6-- "For I am the Lord, I CHANGE NOT."  As for Jesus we read in Heb. 138--"Jesus Christ THE SAME yesterday, and today, and forever."

    The character and attributes of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ NEVER CHANGE. But.....BUT, God changes many things regarding mankind.  None of these changes are an admission of error, however. Everything God has done and then changed with regard to humanity is predetermined. God has never made a mistake.  The Old Covenant HAD to come before the New.  Another: There HAD to be made a change in the law concerning priests coming from Aaron and the tribe of Levi only, because Jesus is our High Priest and He came from the Tribe of Judah (Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a CHANGE also of the law.)  Another: Hos 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I CHANGE their glory into shame.

    And so God does changes "things," but God Himself does not change.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7286.0.html -----

HELLO RAY,

I SHOWED THIS TOPIC OF TWELVE GOD GIVEN TRUTHS TO UNDERSTAND HIS WORD TO AN ACQUAINTANCE AT WORK.

ON PAGE TWO YOU WROTE “HIS FATHER WOULD NOT LET HIM SIN”. He said this is unscriptional.

HE SAID JESUS OBEYED AS HE CHOSE TO DO NOT HIS WILL BUT THE FATHERS WILL.

HAVE YOU A COMMENT FOR HIM ON THIS, HIS NAME IS VIS.

REGARDS JOHN


Dear John: Please show your friend my comment.  People not only do not believe the Scriptures, they DESPISE the Scriptures. People want to believe the damnable lie and heresy (II Pet. 2:1) that God gave to mankind a "God-thwarting power" called "free will"--"human free [uncaused] moral agency."
They WILL NOT obey a God Whom they think can "control" them.  What are the Scriptural facts? As though people who despise the Word of God are interested in Scriptural facts. Your friend contradicts his own argument with his own argument:  "JESUS OBEYED AS HE CHOSE TO DO NOT HIS WILL BUT THE FATHERS WILL."  And did Jesus "CHOOSE" to not do His own will BY HIS OWN ["free"] WILL?
 
WHY have "all sinned" (Rom. 3:23) except Jesus (Heb. 4:15)?  Christendom and her hundreds of thousands of theologians cannot answer that question using the Scriptures.  Because if God had not prevented Jesus from sinning, and He was tempted as we are, and He possessed the fabled "free will" that all men supposedly have, then Jesus WOULD HAVE SINNED.  Why (without the Father living IN HIM) would His "free" will NOT have sinned?  Give me a Scripture?  PLEASE? Remove my statement that the Father would not allow Jesus to sin, and then SHOW ME in the Scriptures where it was possible for Jesus NOT TO SIN?  Show me the Scripture?
 
Who operates in man to do good?  Who operated in Jesus to do good?

Phi 2:13 "For it is God [Who? Man? NO--'GOD'] which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."  Do Christians believe this verse? Of course not.

 Joh 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

Do Christians believe this verse?  Of course not. So then, did the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God the Father IN Jesus keep Him from sinning or not?  Was it the Father's WILL, that Jesus SIN?  Then WHOSE will did Jesus pray would keep Him from sinning--"

Mat 26:39 "And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." 

Do Christians believe this verse with all their "free will" nonsense?   Of course not. When Jesus prayed, where those Jesus' words or the words of His Father "...working in Jesus both to will and to do of His good pleasure?"

Jud 1:24 "Now unto Him [GOD ALMIGHTY] that is able to keep you from falling [Gk:  aptaistos "a derivative of G4417; not stumbling, that is, (figuratively) without sin: - from falling"--Strong's Greek Dictionary]and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy." 

So God can keep us from sinning, but He could not and did not "keep Jesus from SINNING?"  Do Christians believe this verse? Of course not.

Etc., etc., etc. But why go on?  Christians who worship the godless idols of their hearts, will NOT receive instruction from the Word of God. They will NOT!

God be with you,
Ray

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E. Woods

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 11:52:19 AM »

    In my opinion, God know's all things,and He has the right to change what ever
He wants to.
   Mat. 9:4, "Jesus, knowing their thoughts,"
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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 11:59:36 AM »

Sozo, This seems to me to be one of those merry go round questions

Just for starters     God is Holy    God is Good and   God is Love

He is always going to be these things and more....

Free Will in a man made concept bound to his physical existence. The only way mans knows his environment is through his senses, because of some intelligence he has found out some of creations secrets...like ultraviolet and sonar...man is bound in his skin.... Man's consciousness is limited.

Free Will is an illusion of self..we have limited vision when it comes to thinking multidimensional...Everything God chooses will be Good because He sees all sides... for example forest fires or the bird flu  may look like a bad things to us but God sees to infinity and knows where the correction will be. We only see things from our selfish perspective.  

Free will is a ploy that the Pot uses to try and manipulate or the Potter. It is like a child holding its breath trying to challenge its parents...this life you gave me is really under my control not yours.

Okay I did not exactly answer your question...form one thingthe definition of "Free Will is ambiguous in itself, It is space and time bound God is not.

beloved.
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Samson

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 12:08:16 PM »

Good Email Support Kat,

                                   After reading the above Emails to Ray presented by Kat and considering Sozo's initial presentation, would it be safe to say that regarding any " Change" from God, it only appears that way to us, because he had the causes we receive and the choices we make predetermined and known from the beginning, before the founding of the World, so it only appears to us that he made a change regarding how events will turn out, Just a thought, I'm not sure.

                                               Kind Regards, Samson.
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mharrell08

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 12:10:39 PM »

Hello Jason,

Free will is a myth...it does not exist. Asking if God has free will is like asking if God could make a rock so big he could not lift it. Or asking a married man "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?". I know your intention is not to demean God, so don't think I'm saying that.  :)

Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure


God does all through the counsel of His will as his will/plan is perfect. There is no need to 'freely' change a perfect will/plan. Basically, even if free will were true, God would not need it.


Hope this helps,

Marques


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Sozo

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2008, 12:16:43 PM »

Your answers have been very helpful.  Thank you all!
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aqrinc

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2008, 02:04:02 PM »

If (Preposition: He Is) God is Almighty, obviously He can will and do what He Wills.

Malachi 3:6:
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Job 11:7:
Can you by searching find out God? can you find out the Almighty to perfection?

Job 24:1:
Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?

Job 40:2:
Shall he that contends with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproves God, let him answer it.

Revelation of John 1:8:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation of John 19:6:
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunder, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigns.

George.
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Martinez

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 04:50:07 PM »


I'll tell you why Christian's simply must believe in free will, because the don't want to give up their everlasting punishment doctrine and "free will" give their god the ability to do that without getting blood on his hands!

I don't think God's will is totally free. He couldn't do anything unwise or selfish for example. He can't fail, there's lots of things God can't do, but their things I don't think He would want to do.

I think you'll find that free will just doesn't exist anywhere in all of God's creation even in the creator Himself.


OK, Martinez sits back and braces for onslaught.
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OBrenda

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 05:24:50 PM »

Sozo,

I think that your right an om·nis·cient God (m-nshnt)
adj.
Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient deity; the omniscient narrator.
n.
1. One having total knowledge.

would have no use to change his mind. To change your mind, you need to have been wrong to begin with.  Or have based your mind on only limited knowledge.  "To be God" you are the standard by which everything that is created will be measured.  I guess we are asking is God subject to his own nature?  I think he is....but there are many more learned that I!

Brenda
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Heidi

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 06:36:08 AM »

Malachi 3:6:
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed.

I thank my God and Heavenly Father for the above verse.  What wonderful riches there is to find in His living word.  I am greatful that He does not have free will.....we would not be here right now!
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WhoAmI

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2008, 04:22:08 AM »

Ec 3:14 I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him.


Jer 32:17 'Ah, Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for You.

Da 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"


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Sirach

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Re: Does God have free will?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2008, 08:17:28 AM »

The way i see it...God has in His free will created and predetermined earth and everything on it. It was His free will to do that in a certain way, and it was His free will to say to us that He kows the end from the beginning. Also God told us in His complete freedom that He changes not, therefor we allways can trust His word. If God could change, then His word could be true today and changed tomorrow...and personally im very gratefull that that is not an option.

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