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How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
Richard D:
In the Sermon on the Mount ,Jesus said that we are to love those who hate us and pray for those who despitefully use us and bless those who curse us.
I’ll be the first to admit these words of Jesus are beautiful. They are profound words to me. I know in my heart Jesus is asking me to do the impossible. May God strike me dead if I ever believe in my heart I can do what Jesus is asking of me.
I believe Jesus spoke these words to His listeners knowing not one of them could obey. Jesus spoke these words to show us our need of a savior.
I believe Ray’s teaching point this out. If I were in so called Christendom I would believe I could control my own destiny, I would believe I can ask Jesus into my life anytime I desire to,
I would also believe I can forgive who I wish and love those who I will. I would also believe in hell too. I believe as I understand in the capacity God grants me to understand I’ am not a free agent, I realize everything I think, do or say is given to me by God.
After reading Ray’s papers, I don’t believe I have the capability to do good. If I do good it’s because it was given me from above to do good for all good things come from God.
If I do evil it’s because I ‘am evil. Sure God has created causes to cause me to do evil but He himself did not do evil I did evil because without God I cannot do anything but evil.
God created good and evil and God uses evil for good but I understand now God also holds back evil also. What I mean is this, God holds all things together, if God were to remove His Spirit not from the universe but from human beings what would happen?
Not one does good no not one, all have gone astray. Inclination of mans heart is evil from early youth up. These are things I read in the bible.
I don’t want to think about what would transpire if God removed His Spirit from the human race.
Ray’s teaching on free will verses will goes so deep I could spend a lifetime studying this one subject alone.
These things I understand are only the surface of how God’s will affects my will down to the smallest detail of every day life.
Would you share your understanding on this with me? Does knowing this change our life? When people do things that seem strange to me or bother me, I find myself saying that one is fulfilling God’s purpose. God is causing that one to do this or that.
In His Love. Richard.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Richard D on October 14, 2008, 01:18:43 PM ---Would you share your understanding on this with me? Does knowing this change our life? When people do things that seem strange to me or bother me, I find myself saying that one is fulfilling God’s purpose. God is causing that one to do this or that.
--- End quote ---
Hello Richard,
I am not exactly sure what you mean. I believe I know which scriptures and/or Ray's teachings you are referring to but how about copying and pasting an excerpt?
Also, I noticed you have made that statement again, "What if God removed His spirit from the human race?" All things exist THROUGH HIM [Eph 1:11] so you cannot 'remove' God from any equation. God IS spirit [John 4:24] and also the Father of spirits [Heb 12:9].
Personally, I would love to discuss the scriptures and more of Ray's teachings. But, and please take no offense, it's kind of hard to follow you because it seems you're kinda all over the place. :) I know it is from joy of hearing the gospel for the first time but we are still to maintain a 'pattern of sound words' [Titus 2:8; 2 Tim 1:13]
Thanks,
Marques
Richard D:
Marques.
No offense taken Marques, what my meaning was by taking God out of the equation was simply there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.
Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us. This teaching of Ray’s concerning the fact we do not have free will goes very deep.
There is a part of me that says whatever people do it’s because God is sending causes that cause people to do the things they do, so knowing this I say when I see someone doing anything I say God is causing this one to do it. But as soon as I say that is God not causing me to say that or recognize He is behind it?
So knowing this, does anything change in one’s life except to know that everything is of God? Ray spoke about the King of Babylon thinking he has by his own power built a great city and by his own power conquered all who opposed him but this King was mistaken because it was God who had done these things.
Does this knowledge of our wills being subjected to Gods will change something about me? I will still fulfill God’s purpose whether I know this or not.
In His Love. Richard.
David:
--- Quote ---In the Sermon on the Mount ,Jesus said that we are to love those who hate us and pray for those who despitefully use us and bless those who curse us.
I’ll be the first to admit these words of Jesus are beautiful. They are profound words to me. I know in my heart Jesus is asking me to do the impossible. May God strike me dead if I ever believe in my heart I can do what Jesus is asking of me.
--- End quote ---
Hi Richard
Not only do I believe we can do these commandments from our Lord, we better be praying that we are doing them if we are to have any hope in the first resurrection at all. Of course, we can only do these things with Gods Spirit and grace (Divine intervention on the heart).
As for us not having freewill, personally I've never had a problem understanding it or accepting it, even before I was a Christian.
As children we're totally reliant on our parents, subject and answerable to their house rules. We're subject to rules in school and college. We're subject and answerable to the laws of the land all our lives. We're subject to our employers. Subject to global political and economic forces we can do nothing about. Subject to Gods workings in terms of nature, climate, drought, famine etc.
Think about it, only the human state of mind is foolish and arrogant enough to believe that such tiny insignificant beings, in a minority compaired to most species on earth, occupying a spec of ground on this huge planet for a very brief amount of time, has a free will to do and choose as we see fit.
I understood this as a foolish agnostic, but never understood what our purpose was.
Now I know everything is of God, and what our purpose and the purpose of the creation is.
BTW, I agree with Marques. Take Gods spirit away and you have nothing, no human race, no earth, no universe.
--- Quote ---what my meaning was by taking God out of the equation was simply there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.
Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us.
--- End quote ---
Richard, with respect my freind you need to re think this statement. There is nothing good about us at all, and wickedness has always run rampage, especially now days. We are pure evil without any good in us, and its all of God. Have a read of Romans 3.
KristaD:
--- Quote from: Richard D on October 14, 2008, 02:56:45 PM --- there is nothing good about human beings in themselves. That was my point, it’s God who keep wickedness from running rampage.
Without God I believe we would all be pure evil without any good in us.
--- End quote ---
Without God we would not be anything. We would not exist, nothing would. I think that is what Marques is saying.
--- Quote from: Richard D on October 14, 2008, 02:56:45 PM ---
Does this knowledge of our wills being subjected to Gods will change something about me? I will still fulfill God’s purpose whether I know this or not.
--- End quote ---
Yes, it changes everything. You now know that everyone else is subject to His will, therefore it becomes easier to not judge people, including yourself. You also know that God is absolutely sovereign and that absolutely nothing is ever out of His control and His plan. You know your God now and that will change all kinds of things inside of you. Yes, you would've still fulfilled His purpose without knowing it if that had been His plan, but now that you do know it you know that knowing is part of His purpose for you.
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