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How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
Richard D:
David.
Thank you for responding. This is where Ray’s teachings are taking me, I notice you said you believe we can be doing these commandments of God and we better be doing them, I did notice you also said with God’s Spirit.
If I love God or if I obey God I might think to myself I ‘am doing these things and so I feel great about it. But the truth is I have absolutely nothing to do with it according to my understanding of Ray’s teaching on free will.
You could tell me about the first resurrection and about the second resurrection and ask me which one I choose and I would say David I choose the first resurrection but what I choose is irrelevant because it’s God who predestines us for one or the other. So I have nothing to do with it.
If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.
Ray’s teaching are taking me to this understanding, I’ am like a light bulb. I ‘am useless I can do nothing I can not light up the room, God is the electricity, when God moves in me I light up the room but its really God who lights up the room using me to accomplish this task.
Now this might sound like I’m a robot but I don’t feel like I’m a robot, this is how great God is because I feel like its me but its God pulling my invisible stings to do what His good pleasure is.
So there is no difference between the one in the first resurrection and the one in the second resurrection, the person in the first resurrection is no better than the person in the second resurrection except the first resurrection is the better of the two.
Why is there no difference in the two classes of people? All have sinned all have fallen short of the glory of God not one has done right.
God’s decision is what makes the difference. God will have mercy on who he will and will not. But either way nether group of people had anything to do with it. Otherwise one could boast.
This is my understanding from Ray’s teaching.
In His Love. Richard.
Richard D:
KristaD.
That was a great point you have made when you said it does make a difference because now we know God causes these things so it helps us to not be so judgmental towards people .
Then I thought about that answer for a few minutes but find myself coming back to this no free will and what it means to me. According to my understanding from Ray’s papers I do not make my own decisions. I think I’m making my decisions but am I? How can God control all things if everyone is making his or her own decision?
So if I’m not judgmental it’s because God is causing me not to be but if I’ am being judgmental it’s because God is causing me to be. Otherwise God could not be in complete control.
This is what I understand from Ray’s teachings. Do you also see it like this too.
In His Love. Richard.
OBrenda:
Hi Richard,
I enjoyed Krista's comments also, I think the differing is that Ray teaches that we do make our own choices 100's of them a day. (However those choices are not free. They are caused ~ because they are not free of consequence.) It takes a long time to sort this out. Your getting there!
So David is also right when we must be praying and doing them. Evidence of the called is the fiery desire to return back to him/to be like him. And we know it is not of ourselves the ability comes, but from our Creator!
We do not sit on the couch and say "What ever you want Lord it's up to you"
We jump out the door and search to find "What is your will for me to do"
And God puts that desire in us, so we can not boast! Be we can delight in our service to him... ;D
This is how we sharpen iron with iron. Asking and answering till we get to the "ah hah" moment.
If we just said o.k. with out responding back, we couldn't get at those cobwebs in the corner! ;)
Now...I hope I came close to grasping it correctly myself? ??? LOL
Your Sis,
Brenda
OBrenda:
Oh I almost forgot.
Brenda is Judgemental against pink People.
God causes Brenda to turn pink, and then understands what it's like to be Pink.
Brenda now sees differently and chooses to like pink people. But God caused the humbling circumstanes for it to happen.
Because it was GOD'S Will for it to happen.Not that Brenda was a homely child and He felt sorry for her. Or that she never said the "F-Word"
O.K. I think I'm finished now...heehee
Kat:
Hi Richard,
You are certainly on the right track. But I thought I would give you a little more to add to what you are saying.
--- Quote ---If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.
--- End quote ---
You absolutely do have something to do with the choices you make. Everybody will be held accountable for their own actions, the Elect now and the rest later at the White Throne Judgment. The causes that we are given are just a means to bring about the experiences we need to learn right from wrong. God's sovereignty makes Him responsible, but we are accountable for the things we do. Here is a email that helps explain this.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility -------
My Question is: How then (or why) is it that if there is no such thing as free will, there is such a thing as accountability? For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?
Respectfully,
Chris
[Ray Replies]
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
God be with you,
Ray
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