> General Discussions
How deep has Ray’s teachings taken us?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Kat on October 14, 2008, 07:12:48 PM ---
Hi Richard,
You are certainly on the right track. But I thought I would give you a little more to add to what you are saying.
--- Quote ---If I choose to obey Gods commandments it’s because God has cause me or inspired me or motivated me to obey and yet God does it through me so I have nothing to do with my obeying His commandments.
--- End quote ---
You absolutely do have something to do with the choices you make. Everybody will be held accountable for their own actions, the Elect now and the rest later at the White Throne Judgment. The causes that we are given are just a means to bring about the experiences we need to learn right from wrong. God's sovereignty makes Him responsible, but we are accountable for the things we do. Here is a email that helps explain this.
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility -------
My Question is: How then (or why) is it that if there is no such thing as free will, there is such a thing as accountability? For if God is in control of everything, and He has done everything "according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His Will" - then how can we be held accountable for the things that we "do"?
Respectfully,
Chris
[Ray Replies]
Dear Chris:
You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you. God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!
When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, even other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE! True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.
But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT!
Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying: Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED? Why? Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.
This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them. IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT. "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.
Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.
It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.
God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well! We have this absolute promise from God:
"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Amen! And thats the truth!
God bless,
Alex
digitalwise:
Dear David,
--- Quote ---Not only do I believe we can do these commandments from our Lord, we better be praying that we are doing them if we are to have any hope in the first resurrection at all. Of course, we can only do these things with Gods Spirit and grace (Divine intervention on the heart).
--- End quote ---
I disagree.
The truth is we cannot OBEY and DO ALL these commandments.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guiltyof all.
We enter 1st resurrection based on GRACE EXTERNAL imputed not imparted.
Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him6 for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Imparted Grace aides us in our daily walk but we are far from perfected in this life even knowing the LAWS right now!
2Ti 1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
digitalwise
Richard D:
Breda……..Kat……..and everyone else also, I need to take time to go over what everyone has said. I know I might have more question on this but I need to digest the answers at this point.
This is wonderful information I have received and I’m thankful, I need to spend a day or two meditating on what’s been already given to me.
Thank you all very much.
In His Love. Richard.
KristaD:
--- Quote from: Richard D on October 14, 2008, 04:49:31 PM ---KristaD.
That was a great point you have made when you said it does make a difference because now we know God causes these things so it helps us to not be so judgmental towards people .
Then I thought about that answer for a few minutes but find myself coming back to this no free will and what it means to me. According to my understanding from Ray’s papers I do not make my own decisions. I think I’m making my decisions but am I? How can God control all things if everyone is making his or her own decision?
So if I’m not judgmental it’s because God is causing me not to be but if I’ am being judgmental it’s because God is causing me to be. Otherwise God could not be in complete control.
This is what I understand from Ray’s teachings. Do you also see it like this too.
In His Love. Richard.
--- End quote ---
You make your own decisions. God controls all things because He created all things.
So if you are judgmental towards someone God has caused you to be judgmental because He MADE you like you are and gave you the things you've experienced in your life. He is not causing you to do anything that you are against doing, He simply made you so that you would be judgmental towards that person at that time for a purpose. He made you to where you would choose to make the choices you make and feel the way you feel and do the things that you do. He isn't controlling us like a puppet master like we don't do anything at all, He gave us intelligence and choices He just set up the circumstances and put the things in us to do what He wills for us to do. He has already made everything in a way that it will unfold exactly according to His plan because His plan is perfect and His knowledge is perfect. He does not have to make us do things, we do them according to His plan because that's what He created us to do. We still make the choices we make when we are in the situations so we are accountable but it is never free from His preordained will.
I hope that helps, forgive me I haven't read all of the responses.... babies to tend to ;).
Longhorn:
Im glad God caused me to like Mexican food. :)
Love in Christ
Longhorn
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