Am I not understanding this Scripture???

[winner08]

Hello everybody: I have a litget question. In 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is this Scripture saying that who do not know God will be in big trouble?
and the second part: On those who do not obey the gospel of Christ?

The reason I ask is because Ray said something on the subject of those who never heard of Jesus Christ . Never heard of the Gospel of Christ.  I believe Ray said something alone the lines of how can one be held responsible if one never even heard of Jesus Christ.

Or am I not understanding the context this Scripture is in? (Ray would love that one. context, context,context)!!!

Darren

[Richard D]

Darren

Those who do not know Christ or obey the gospel will end up in the lake of fire. They will learn at a later time from what I understand.

God is not dealing with everyone at this time. I don't think of it as trouble but rather Gods purpose. Jesus DIE for ALL.

I hope this helps............IMHO........


                                                   IN His Love. Richard.

[mharrell08]

Hello everybody: I have a litget question. In 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is this Scripture saying that who do not know God will be in big trouble?
and the second part: On those who do not obey the gospel of Christ?

The reason I ask is because Ray said something on the subject of those who never heard of Jesus Christ . Never heard of the Gospel of Christ.  I believe Ray said something alone the lines of how can one be held responsible if one never even heard of Jesus Christ.

Or am I not understanding the context this Scripture is in? (Ray would love that one. context, context,context)!!!

Darren

Hello Darren,

Here is an excerpt from 'What is the Gospel of the Kingdom' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html):

JUDGMENT MUST BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD

What did Paul say, "judgment must begin at the house of God."  "Judgment"... persecution is part of that judgment.  Overcoming the flesh, this is all part of that judgment.  Those fiery trials and so on. 

And what is part of the gospel?  We are going to bless the whole world, all the nations.  How are we going to do that?   Christ doesn't change, I change not, yesterday today and forever. 
How does He bring about perfection and maturity?  "Judgment must begin at the house of God."  JUDGMENT.

How is the world going to be blessed?  JUDGMENT.
The world is not cursed to eternal damnation in some fires of hell, to be tortured aions unending.
They are to be judged.
We are to be judged into perfection.  Can we see that! 
Why does the word judge mean something here and then over here it means else?  Judgment must begin at the house of God.

1Peter 4:17  For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

What does that judgment do?  It makes you obedient to the gospel.  If you are not judged beginning at the house of God and your not part of that judgment, what are you then?  He says, well what will happen to them that obey not the gospel?  Well those are not being judged now.  But they will be and when they are, guess what?

Isa 26:9  ...for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Yes they will.  I don't care if every Theological seminary on the face of the earth denies it, when God's judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the whole world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.  God does not torture righteous people for all eternity.  Most people have never heard the gospel. 

In Mark we get some of the earliest indications of what has to be done regarding this gospel.  I could try to go through Acts and Romans, Corinthians and Ephesians, Colossians, I and II Timothy and James, Peter, John and Jude and show you all the things that Christ is going to do in and through you.  There's the judgments and the trails and all the things we are to learn. 
Hopefully if some of you could attended our Bible studies and you keep reading the material on Bible-Truths.com, you will learn how to think and act and accomplish these things that are taught.  And get it out of your head that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the four gospels.  The whole New Testament is the gospel.  What, do you think Paul did not preach the gospel?  He is just as much the gospel as Luke.  John is just as much the gospel as Mark.  It's all the gospel.  It's good news.  If it is good news... if it's good, anything that you read in here it's the gospel.

Also, there is a paper from Ray to Dr. Kennedy entitled 'What about those who have never heard?'(http://bible-truths.com/kendy2.htm) which talks about the billions and billions of people who have never heard the gospel.

Actually, most of the 2 billion members of Christendom have never heard the gospel. Hell fire, free will, tithing 10% salary, immortal souls, etc. is not the gospel. 

Matt. 13:15  For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them


Marques

[aqrinc]

Darren i think when you read most of this chapter (in context)  it brings out the meaning much better.

1-Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2-Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

II Thessalonians 1: 3-12

3-We are bound to thank God always for you, brothers, as it is meet, because that your faith grows exceedingly, and the charity
of every one of you all toward each other abounds;

4-So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that
you endure:

5-Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which
you also suffer:

6-Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7-And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8-In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9-Who shall be punished with everlasting (Aionian or Age Lasting) destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10-When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among
you was believed) in that day.

11-Why also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of
his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12-That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the
Lord Jesus Christ.

[winner08]

Bad choice of words Marques. I should have not used the word trouble.

That's what I was looking for an explaination on those who never heard of Jesus Christ. God would not  destroy anyone if they never heard of Jesus Christ. That wouldnn't be just. I will go back and read the paper that Ray wrote on Dr. Kennedy. Thanks everybody.

Darren

[WhoAmI]

Hey Darren,

Before you knew the things you are aware of now. Did you ever think that you wanted to be as far as you could be away from the fire of God? Just wondering, because I knew way back that I use to think that I wanted to avoid the fire all together. But now I think, God burn me with the fire! The difference now is that we realize the fire has hope, but most churches want nothing to do with it. They teach the fire is God's failure and our doom.