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Author Topic: To Know Good And Evil...  (Read 2352 times)

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hillsbororiver

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To Know Good And Evil...
« on: October 17, 2008, 10:02:49 AM »

From LOF Part 2;

(THE REAL ORIGIN OF SIN)

"And the LORD God said Behold, [consider, to perceive, to know, to understand], the man is BECOME AS ONE OF US [Hebrew for ‘God’ is elohiym which is the plural of elowahh, hence ‘us’], TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL..." (Gen. 3:22).

Knowing "good and evil" is one of the most essential requisites in being formed in the image of God. To truly "know" both good and evil they HAD to partake of its source, which was the "TREE of the knowledge of good and evil," which then DEMANDED that they SIN in order to obtain this "knowledge." NO OTHER TREE IN THE GARDEN POSSESSED THIS NEEDED KNOWLEDGE!

And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifested in these last times for you" (I Pet. 1:19-20).

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb [Christ] slain from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD" (Rev. 13:8).

Is anyone so naive and blind as to believe that God had prepared a Lamb, a Sacrifice, His SON, to be slain for the sins of the world at a time when theologians would have us believe God didn’t even KNOW there was shortly coming such a thing as SIN? God knew; God is smart! It was God Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil It was God Who placed it right in the middle of the garden to catch Eve’s eye. It was God Who made the tree particularly attractive and desirable. It was God who placed in the humans the desires and passions that would CAUSE them to partake of the forbidden fruit. It was God who placed Satan the serpent in the garden to tempt Eve and fill her head with the glories of enlightenment. It was God Who had ALREADY made preparation for their salvation through the slain Lamb of God.

Only ignorant and foolish theologians would ever charge God of being ignorant of the conduct and behavior of His own creation. It was not the temptation or deception entering INTO Eve that caused her to sin and bring separation from her Creator and God. It was what was already in her that caused her to sin. Proof:

"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Mat. 15:19).

Notice it: "And when the woman saw [in her heart] that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eye [in her heart], and a tree to be desired [in her heart] to make one wise [an idol of the heart], she took [’For out of the heart proceed ... thefts...’] of the fruit thereof, and did eat" (Gen. 3:6).

Did you notice that last phrase "...and did eat"? It was not the "eating" of the fruit that made her a sinner -- she had ALREADY sinned by looking, lusting, and fantasizing about her potential wisdom. It was AFTER she sinned that she "did eat."

The good news is that all of our suffering is for a grand purpose and will ultimately bring huge rewards. Just two verses before, Paul tells us how God subjected the whole creation to these many evils and he gives us this comforting thought:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [’groaning and travailing in pain together until now’ Ver 22] are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in US" (Ver. 18).

Read it all here; http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html

Peace,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

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Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 10:56:34 AM »

SATAN ATTEMPTS THE IMPOSSIBLE

Satan tried to disqualify Jesus at the beginning of His ministry:

"Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil" (Matt. 4:1).

Notice that it was the spirit of God that led Jesus to be tempted of the devil. Can we not see that Satan serves a needful purpose in God’s plan? It was absolutely needful that Satan tempt Jesus. If it weren’t needful, God wouldn’t have done it! And so Satan tried to bribe Christ into worshiping him:

"Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" "Matt. 4:8-9).

Let’s notice a few things overlooked by most Sunday school teachers (and most of the world’s greatest theologians as well). Ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes: ALL THE NATIONS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD BELONG TO SATAN THE DEVIL!!! Heaven and Earth are God’s possessions, however, God has delegated the nations to Satan. Satan could not offer all these kingdoms of the world to Jesus if he did not possess them to offer them in the first place. They are Satan’s ignorant kingdoms:

"In whom the god [SATAN] of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the Image of God, should shine unto them" (II Cor. 4:4).

Oh, that the Church would believe the Scriptures. Why are there billions who "believe not" in the world? Is it because they CHOOSE to believe not? That’s what well-intentioned Christians tell me all the time. "Ray! these people CHOOSE to go to hell." How, pray tell, can they "choose" to go to hell, when they "believe NOT" in the first place. They don’t "make a choice," the choice is made for them, because they "believe not." And JUST WHY do they "believe not?"

Will you insist on the Church’s answer or will you humbly accept God’s answer? "In whom the God of this world has BLINDED the minds of them that believe NOT…" That’s why they can’t "see" to make the right choice—THEY ARE BLIND!

Now then, what would happen if God were to REMOVE that Satanic blindness? Would they STILL choose to reject Jesus Christ and His gospel? We don’t need to speculate, let’s read it:

"In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, LEST the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, SHOULD SHINE UNTO THEM" (II Cor. 4:4).

When the deception is taken away, people will understand. When the blindness is taking away, people will see the truth.

Next, notice what Jesus Himself says would happen if this Satanic blindness were removed:

"For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed [Why? Why are their eyes ‘closed?’ Because, "the god of this world has BLINDED… them…" That’s why] lest at ANY TIME they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should BE CONVERTED, and I should HEAL them" (Matt. 13:15).

This is not rocket science. When Satan blinds the minds of people, they "believe NOT." And they cannot repent, be converted, or saved until the blindness is lifted and they are given a knowledge of the Truth. But is it God’s will that such a thing will ever happen?

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savour; Who WILL have all men to be saved [and just how might that come about?], and to come unto the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH" (I Tim. 2:4).

But doesn’t the Church teach that God is the Saviour of "believers ONLY?" Don’t the non-believers GO TO HELL? Let’s read it:

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN… [but doesn’t that mean believers exclusively? No…] …of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe" (I Tim. 4:10).

Will everyone reading this last paragraph now believe God, and believe these Scriptures, and turn to God and be saved, seeing how simple and clear these verses are. NO! Why not? Because Satan has SPIRITUALLY BLINDED their eyes. True, they can read the words, but they cannot see the Truth in their heart, mind, and spirit. Jesus said,

"…the WORDS that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE" (John 6:63).

No one can "see" words of "spirit" with eyes of flesh. If you are beginning to see the big picture of God’s salvation of all, and rejoice in that Truth, then God has given you "spiritual eyes to see spiritual words."

We coin the phrase, "In God We Trust," and parrot the phrase, "One Nation Under God," but how can that be, seeing that we have just read in the Scriptures that all the kingdoms of this world belong to Satan who has blinded the minds of these same nations. Now surely someone will say, "But Mr. Smith, Satan has blinded the minds of only those who ‘believe not.’" Well, if they are not blinded, then they will believe the above Scriptures that say Satan is the god of this world and Satan owns all the nations of this world! But the so-called "believers" don’t really "believe" the Scriptures that I just quoted, DO THEY? No, of course they don’t. Do you see how God’s Word is a "two-edged sword?"

Thank God that Jesus was not intimidated in the slightest by Satan:

"Then says Jesus unto him, Get thee hence SATAN… Then the DEVIL leaves Him…" (Matt. 4:10-11).

Does Satan obey Christ by leaving and never to return? Is this the end of Satan? No. Let’s see what else Luke’s account adds to this drama,

"and when the devil had ended all the temptation [Gk: testing], he departed from Him for a season [Gk: until an opportune time]" (Luke 4:13).

So Satan left our Lord only for the moment. However, Satan would be at the heels of Jesus wherever He went. After attacking Jesus, Satan attacked His head Apostle, but only Jesus recognized whom it really was talking through His apostle:

"But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind Me, SATAN..." (Matt. 16:23).

And again, Satan leaves, but only "for a season." Some might wonder why Jesus wouldn’t just command him to leave and never, ever return again? Because, Satan is needed. Satan was created for the very purpose that he fulfills.

Jesus tells us in a parable that wherever His Word is heard, Satan is there to do his dirty work:

"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, SATAN comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in the hearts" (Mark 4:15).

I have no doubt but that this is happening right now to some who are reading this Series on the Lake of Fire. Some will see in their heart that these things I am teaching from the Scriptures must be true, but quickly Satan plants doubts and visions of persecution in their minds, and so some will immediately reject these grand truths because of Satan’s influence over their carnal minds. Satan is a very powerful spirit being.

This is not a ‘one time only’ parable by Jesus. This parable is true every single time that God’s Word is preached. Satan is always there to "take away" God’s words of Truth from the heart of the hearer. This parable is just as true today as it was two thousand years ago when Christ first gave it. Wherever the Word of God is being heard, there will be Satan also.

Jesus instantly knew the cause of a woman’s infirmity that caused her to be bowed over:

"And ought now this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom SATAN, has bound, low these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath day?" (Luke 13:16).

Much of the evil in this world can be laid at the feet of Satan. Sickness and disease are directly related to the powers of Satan’s tyranny.

"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and; healing all that were oppressed [tyrannized] of the devil…" (Acts 10:38).

Again, Satan attacks Peter. Like many in the Church today, Peter thought that he was a spiritual power that could handle any situation, when in reality he was weaker than water. He was not even converted. He rejected Jesus three times before he ever knew what he was doing or saying.

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and when thou are converted, strengthen your brethren" Luke 22:31).

Peter was only 53 days away from becoming converted, and from then on Peter was a powerful spiritual witness for Jesus Christ.

Let me reiterate here once more, that what I am doing in this Series to twofold:

I am exposing those whose teachings contradict the Word of God

I am attempted to present the unadulterated Truth of God’s Word.

Remember always as we attempt to enlighten those whom God is calling, that we are NO BETTER than those whose doctrines we condemn. God loves and DIED for these heretics of the modern Church. They are precious to God—and they had better be PRECIOUS TO US, or we too will receive a great condemnation for feeling anything but LOVE TOWARD THEM! They may be, in fact, our enemies, but Christ instructs us to: "…LOVE YOUR ENEMIES"!!

When Satan wants a job done that is of utmost importance to him, he does it himself. Satan wanted no loose ends in his scheme to destroy Jesus, and so he personally entered into the body of Judas and performed his dirty deed:

"Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him unto them. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money. And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray Him unto them in the absence of the multitude" (Luke 22:3-6).

Judas was totally helpless in fending off Satan. Jesus did not pray for Judas to be protected from Satan. Why not? He prayed for Peter when Satan came after him. Why not Judas? Did Jesus not like Judas?

The idea being taught today is that Satan is not a necessary part of God’s purpose, but is rather a fly in the ointment. In fact, it is taught that God never created Satan in the first place. That’s right, Satan supposedly created himself, or at least became Satan by himself. Wasn’t Satan once a bright and shining star, a light-bringer, the "anointed cherub that covers?"

From LOF Part 9 read it all here; http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Peace,

Joe
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OBrenda

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Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 11:04:37 AM »

Hi Joe,

As I was reading this, it really hit home to me that our battles really aren't against "Flesh & Blood".  They take place first in our mind/heart & spirit before we act out in a physical way.  Even most of our feelings are preceded by a thought. Example... If I hear myself say, nobody likes me or understands me,.....I feel sadness, grief & separation . If I feel these things I will become mopey and a recluse, which will also cause people not to enjoy my company.  Which I will perceive as evidence that nobody likes me.  But it was in fact all started by a lie!

Wow...my battle within has a great deal to do with my thoughts, beliefs and from them spring my emotions & actions that lead to sin in the natural.  I think I'm starting to put things together in a deeper way.  I hope I made sense, am I missing anything else in my understanding here?

Wow,
Brenda
 
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Samson

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Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 12:06:17 PM »

Great Thread Joe,

                         This Topic about God creating Evil, placing that Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil conveniently right in the middle of the garden and how Eve sinned prior to actually touching or eating of it, by already having the desire for it(Gen. 3:6) and them knowing Good/Evil as one of us(Gen. 3:22) and these desires in the heart(Matt.15:19) and that Adam/Eve already possessed these prior to the ACTION of TOUCHING and EATING the fruit made immediate good sense to me, when first reading that information from Ray.

                        And the word " PERFECT " is relative, not necessarily meaning totally flawless, but they were made the way God intended them to be, perfect according to his overall plan for mankind. They were made Spiritually immature needing to learn Good/Evil to see the contrasts and for their gradual Spiritual development.

                               And so it was GOD, and none other than GOD, Who intended from the beginning that Satan and man SIN! That does not make God a sinner, for a sin is a "mistake," a "missing of the mark," a "falling short of the glory of God," and God has NEVER MADE A MISTAKE OR FALLEN SHORT OF TOTAL PERFECTION! God knew what He was doing and how things would turn out BEFORE He created ANYTHING! "Declaring the end from the beginning..." (Isa. 46:10). Satan and man are "accountable" for their sins, because they sinned willingly from their heart, but God takes "responsibility" for their sins, and therefore had already provided them a Saviour BEFORE the foundation of the world:
       
                              I quoted the above from your thread for emphasis: DECLARING THE END FROM THE BEGINNING(Isa. 46:10).

                                   I Love this type of Thread, helps to put a dent in the Free-Will Idol of Man, showing that God is in control of everything, even prior to Adam/Eve's partaking of the Tree of Good/Evil.

                                       Kind Regards, Samson.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 12:08:47 PM »

Hi Brenda,

You are making perfect sense, that is exactly how it is. You summed it up well!

Here are a few verses (of many) that testify to what you wrote;


Psa 141:4  Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practice wicked works with men that work iniquity: and let me not eat of their dainties.

Pro 6:18  A heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Jer 7:24  But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Jam 1:15  Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Peace,

Joe
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 12:17:45 PM »



                        And the word " PERFECT " is relative, not necessarily meaning totally flawless, but they were made the way God intended them to be, perfect according to his overall plan for mankind. They were made Spiritually immature needing to learn Good/Evil to see the contrasts and for their gradual Spiritual development.

                                    

Hi Samson,

Excellent!

Yes, so many miss that point, creation was made perfect for what they/we needed to experience, not because therey were no shortcomings in what will ultimately be the final condition/conclusion.

The frame or chasis of a car may be perfect for what it is, but it sure comes up short when compared to a completed automobile. It (like us) is yet to be a finished work.

Peace,

Joe
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Marlene

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Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 04:56:48 PM »

Hello Brenda, I really have to agree with you on all of that. I have had that battle going on for years. Now, I see some victory over it. But, God keeps giving us those feelings so he can help us overcome. I hate when I get those kind of thoughts in my head. The mind is a battlefield for sure.

In His Love
Marlene
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Richard D

  • Guest
Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2008, 12:01:08 AM »

Joe.

Can this verse below be also said of all who emerge from the lake of fire?


For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [’groaning and travailing in pain together until now’ Ver 22] are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in US" (Ver. 18).


I notice Paul is referring to this present time or this age but can likewise be said also for the rest in the age to come?

I know God is no respecter of persons and all will eventually become sons and daughters so can it be said that the sufferings in the lake of fire are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in them as well?


                                                 In His Love. Richard.
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2008, 10:14:25 AM »

Hi Richard,

That is absolutely true, when all is said and done and the Spirit of God is all in all with the entire creation finally perfected the trials and tribulation everyone experienced will be a very small thing in comparison to what our God has prepared for everyone.

I mean have you ever tried to imagine the best possible scenario your life could be? Perfect health, no money worries, no temptations, no anger, no jealousy, never tired or stressed, being able to travel instantaneously anywhere in the Universe and beyond, reunited with dead loved ones who are no longer old and sickly, I could go on and on......

With that being said it is wayyyyyyyyyyy better than that!

I have always loved the following verses, we know all will eventually come to know and love our Lord and God.

Isa 64:4  For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

It is a real mind bender to try to come up with the best and most exciting things you can imagine and God just smiles and shakes His Head saying "nope, even better than that, way better!"

Peace,

Joe
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aqrinc

  • Guest
Re: To Know Good And Evil...
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2008, 01:11:57 PM »

Joe and Everyone Else,

This is a Thread for the Ages, Like All the other threads on this forum.

That mindbender is what has always been in the innermost part of my mind whispering:
My God Know's me and will not let me fail; This is His Word and It Will Not Return Void.


Read this verse again and recognize that: (All will Love God so All Will be Saved; even So As By Fire).
That is a Promise from God so it is Done.

1Co 2: 9-10

9- But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man,
the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10-But God has revealed them to us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.


George.

Hi Richard,

That is absolutely true, when all is said and done and the Spirit of God is all in all with the entire creation finally perfected the trials and tribulation everyone experienced will be a very small thing in comparison to what our God has prepared for everyone.

I mean have you ever tried to imagine the best possible scenario your life could be? Perfect health, no money worries, no temptations, no anger, no jealousy, never tired or stressed, being able to travel instantaneously anywhere in the Universe and beyond, reunited with dead loved ones who are no longer old and sickly, I could go on and on......

With that being said it is wayyyyyyyyyyy better than that!

I have always loved the following verses, we know all will eventually come to know and love our Lord and God.

Isa 64:4  For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

It is a real mind bender to try to come up with the best and most exciting things you can imagine and God just smiles and shakes His Head saying "nope, even better than that, way better!"

Peace,

Joe
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