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Author Topic: Melchisedec and the Trininty  (Read 2545 times)

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galatians22067

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Melchisedec and the Trininty
« on: October 17, 2008, 03:11:33 PM »


Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


I used to think this verse was saying that Melchisedec was never born or died and that he did not have a father or mother. The writer of Hebrews is just telling us that the fact that these things are omitted of him in the verses of Scripture concerning him shows that there was a more perfect priesthood than the Levitical priesthood. The point of the writer is not to say he did not have parents.


However isnt this verse implying that Jesus did not have a beginning ?


Thanks,

Matt







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Kat

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Re: Melchisedec and the Trininty
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 04:31:56 PM »


Hi Matt,

Here is a section I got from the Tithing article on Melchizedek.  This might help with your question.

http://bible-truths.com/tithing.html --------------------------

 Gen. 14:20, "And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he [Abram] gave him [Melchizedek king of Salem, the priest of the most high God, Ver. 18] TITHES of all [all the goods of war, Ver. 16]."

We read again of this same event in the book of Hebrews:

Heb. 7:1-10, "For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who meets with Abraham returning from the combat with the kings and blesses him, to whom Abraham parts a TITHE also, from all... Now, behold how eminent this one is to whom the patriarch Abraham gives a TITHE also of the best of the booty. And, indeed, those of the sons of Levi who obtain the priestly office have a direction to take TITHES from the people according to the law... And here, indeed, dying men are obtaining TITHES... And so, to say, through Abraham, Levi also, who is obtaining the TITHES, has been TITHED, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek meets with him."

There are a number of things we can learn concerning tithing from this section of Scriptures. In this, the first mention of tithing in the Bible, Abram gives to Melchizedek (a priest of God who was also the king of the city of Salem) a tithe of the best of the booty taken in war. Notice that this was not wheat, corn, wine, oil, or cattle from Abramís personal possessions, but rather booty taken from conquered nations.

There is nothing stated here that would cause us to conclude that Abram (later changed to Abraham) ever tithed on a regular basis on his own person possessions. Although Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe of the booty of war, he told the king of Sodom that he would take none of it for himself.

In this same account recorded in the seventh chapter of Hebrews, we learn that the priests of Levi, from the family of Aaron (although far inferior to the priestly order of Melchizedek) also receive tithes from the people according to the law. This tells us little more about the actual tithes other than they received tithes.

Christian scholars claim that Abrahamís tithing of the spoils of war predated the Law of Moses, and therefore even if the Law of Moses is done away with, tithing is still binding on Christians because Abraham predated the Law of Moses. Is this true?

And Christendom teaches that this Scripture is the first proof from the Word of God that Christians are to tithe ten percent of their salaries to the church. But what have we really learned from these Scriptures?:

Abraham went to war on behalf of Sodom (SODOM, mind you), to rescue his nephew, Lot. He then gave 10% of these spoils of war to Melchizedek, and allowed Sodom to keep 90%, while he himself kept NOTHING!

Now then, is there a Scholar alive anywhere on earth that can explain to us how this one single unparalleled and never-again-to-be-duplicated event, is Scriptural proof that Christians should give 10% of their annual salaries (not the spoils of war, but their money, their salaries), not once, but year after year after year, not to Melchizedek, but to Clergymen who claim to be ministers of Jesus Christ? If anyone can see a similarity here, I will show him the similarity between an elephant and a fruit fly.

Next we will observe a Scripture that you will probably never hear a sermon on. No tithe-preaching clergyman would use the example of how Jacob tithed. Remember, Jacob is the grandson of Abraham, the father of the faithful, whom God also blessed tremendously. Not only did God approve of Jacobís tithing proposal, but, He made it the foundational principle upon which all future tithing would be based. Here it is.
v
v
Numbers 18:24-28, "But the TITHES of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying, Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the TITHES which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord, even a TENTH part of the TITHE. And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshing floor, and as the fullness of the winepress. Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your TITHES, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lordís heave offering to Aaron the priest."

According to the above Scriptures, could just anyone claim to be a representative of God and therefore have Israel pay tithes to him? Letís read it again, "But the TITHES of the children of Israel ... I have given to the Levites to inherit." Now in order to be a priest one not only had to be of the tribe of Levi, but he also had to be of the family of Aaron. In fact, if one could not trace his genealogy back to the family of Aaron, he could not be a priest of God. This is the whole point of Hebrews seven. Jesus Christ is a priest for the eons of the rank of Melchizedek because Melchizedek predated the law which stated that only sons of Aaron could be priests. Therefore Melchizedekís genealogy is not given in the Scriptures, and Christ, who according to the flesh is of the line of Judah, can and will be Godís High Priest in the Kingdom of God.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat


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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Melchisedec and the Trininty
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 05:00:56 PM »

Hi Matt I do not exactly understand the title of your thread and question
: Melchisedec and the Trininty

This passage has a lot of interesting commentary over time

(Heb 7:2)  to whom also Abraham presented a tenth part of all--being first, as his name signifies, King of righteousness, and secondly King of Salem, that is, Melchisedec:King of peace:

(Heb 7:3)  with no father or mother, and no record of ancestry: having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made a type (aphomoioōde made a fact similie) of the Son of God--this man Melchizedek remains a priest for ever.

G871   ἀφομοιόω  aphomoioō    this word is used only here heb 7:3
Thayer Definition: 1) to cause a model to pass off into an image or shape like it
2) to express itself in it, to copy 3) to produce a facsimile
4) to be made like, render similar

From commentaries it could mean that this was Christ who came into the scene pre incarnate and did this             and/or
that there was a real person who lived at the time of Abraham, who had no recorded lineage....rememeber in the return from bablon to Jersulem iduring Erza if you could not trace your lineage....you essentially had none....and he was the King of Salem...later Moses and Law mandated ..only from Aaron or the Levi line cold any priest come forth...a King could not be a priest..
We do not know what happened to melkisedek there is nothing recorded.

Also Paul who was aware of midrash saw this particular 'story' as this being written in the Torah...the ever living word of God, hence the name of Melkisedek would live on because it was written there in the Torah.

I like what Meyer in his commentary wrote

It was as if the Father could not await the day of His Sonís priestly entrance within the veil; but must needs anticipate the marvels of His ministry, by embodying its leading features in miniature.Ē

I do not see anything trinity in Hebrew 7:3 passage so perhaps you can elborate more on what you are thinking.



beloved
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 05:02:05 PM by Beloved »
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galatians22067

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Re: Melchisedec and the Trinity
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 08:40:24 PM »

Hi I was having trouble with the part of the verse that says Melchisedec was made like unto the son of God.  In what ways is the writer trying to compare the two ?   Is this saying Jesus had no beginning and was not created and existed always by saying not having  "beginning of days."


Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


Thanks,

Matt
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Beloved

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Re: Melchisedec and the Trininty
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 09:23:30 PM »

Here is the transcript from Ray on the subject of who Jesus  and the father are

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

(Gen 1:1)  In the beginning God created heavens and earth

In the Firstfruit (Jesus)  God created the heaven (spiritual) and the earth (physical

(Col 1:15)  who is [the] image of the invisible God, first-born of [fig., existing before] all creation,

(Col 1:16)  because by Him all [things] were created, the [ones] in the heavens and the [ones] on the earth, the visible [things] and the invisible [things], whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all such things have been created through Him and for Him,

(Col 1:17)  and _He_ is before all [things] and all [things] are held together by Him.

Melkesedek had no lineage...Abraham was a greatgrandson of Noah....Under Jewisih law in essence had no beginning in relation to God
Jesus when conceived was conceived by the Father

2Co 1:3  Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

The Holy Spirt is not the Father of Jesus, it is the power of God through which he acts. The Spirit of God enetered Mary a human seed who came from Adam...as a female she carried Eve's seed in both her genetic and mitochondrial DNA.

Look through all the NT and the Father and Jesus are mention in salutations and closings of the various books, The Holy Spirit is not included. When the Holy Spirit ismention with the Father and Jesus  most of the time it occurs in spurious texts in the Bible...put there by history, God allowed the blind to delude themselves by adding to the text.

1Co 8:6  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
Paul is trying to show that now Jesus is both a king and preist , he was from the tribe of Judah and now that he has laid down his life for the remission of sins...he is a high priest (even though he is not a Levite). The author is ahowing that Abraham..... treated this Mekisedek as a priest long before his great grandson Jacob gave birth to any Levite. 

Melkesedek was the  King of Salem (to be (Jerusalam) ,,,,his name is King of Righeousness.   

Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:   

yet John says

1Jn 2:29  If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Jesus. He is the Real Thing that was fortold in this living parable.  Malkesedek is a Facicmile a Shadow a Prelude

Rev 17:14  He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

I hope this helped you see

beloved

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David

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Re: Melchisedec and the Trininty
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2008, 08:46:21 PM »

I don't see how it can be, otherwise the next part would have to apply "nor end of life". Christ did have an end to His life, briefly. He was then resurrected and given imortality.
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Beloved

  • Guest
Re: Melchisedec and the Trininty
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2008, 09:05:40 PM »

This is a double entendres

Jesus did have an literal 'end of life' when he died physically.

But it was He after his own resurrection who declared:

(Rev 1:18)  "I am he that liveth, and was dead."

but Christ is now alive

(Acts 13:29) "for evermore" since his Father raised him from the dead.

Melkisedek is never mentioned again, there is no mention of his death

Now the phrase " Remains a priest continually" on the other hand poses another question

: Either this refers to the re- continuation of the priesthood of Melchizedek, or it is evidence that Melchizedek was actually Jesus appearing in the Old Testament. 

Neverthe less Jesusí priesthood does remain to this day, and into eternity

Paul uses this story from the Torah to show contrast and fulfillment, 


beloved


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