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Growth..sin to some, grace to others.
aqrinc:
Musicman,
You just may have to do penance before too long if you keep this up. Well i guess that
is another way to keep demons out; ??? they figure you are already infested ;D LOL ROTF
George.
--- Quote from: musicman on October 24, 2008, 08:03:08 PM ---What do you mean a growth is a sin?!! I get growths all over my body from bad sanitation. And we know that the "cleanliness is next to Godliness" is a false scripture, so you can't use that to justify your hatred for fungus ridden growths. I mean, we don't have to bathe to be good with God, do we? I am appalled that people on this forum have the audacity to criticize those of us that are comfortable with big, ugly, festering growths on our body, just because we don't try to keep our living space clean and free of disgusting toxins.
--- End quote ---
WhoAmI:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on October 24, 2008, 01:22:24 PM ---
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 24, 2008, 11:42:30 AM ---Many quote all the same scriptures in defense of their belief that they are following the Gospel of Christ.
--- End quote ---
Jeff,
Quoting scriptures compared to having spiritual discernment to understand them is like night and day. It is not the same.
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 24, 2008, 11:42:30 AM ---Paul is proof that knowing the scriptures doesn't amount to anything.
--- End quote ---
I believe you mean 'Saul' right? Saul was not converted, Paul was. His conversion was a type of putting off the old man and being spiritually converted [Eph. 4:22-23]
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 24, 2008, 11:42:30 AM ---Because the way you understand the scriptures seems to point to where you are at in your walk away from Egypt and on to the Promise Land. How many of us when we were in Babylon knew the scriptures and could quote and defend our position with the scriptures.
--- End quote ---
What we all thought was defense of the scriptures was exposed to be contradictions which Ray has pointed out again and again. That's the main purpose of bible-truths.com.
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 24, 2008, 11:42:30 AM ---So the idea that we base it on the scriptures does not work because with blurred eyes you make up what you want all along using the scriptures.
--- End quote ---
Again:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
People make up all kinds of doctrine all over the world...but we don't need to 'make up' any doctrine as we already have one: the doctrine of Christ which was given to him by the Father [John 7:16-17]. Any spiritual growth will be in agreement with this doctrine. If it is not, it is not of God.
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 24, 2008, 11:42:30 AM ---Could the scriptures be a god and lead us astray with this mode of thought?
Jeff
--- End quote ---
Jesus is called the Word of God. Jesus is not a 'god' he is GOD. When you DON'T look to Christ the Word of God you will be lead astray. Why would you even want to not rely on the very words that our Lord and Savior has spoken? I really am having a hard time understanding your point on this Jeff. It's like you're implying why do we use the scriptures for our foundation. If not the Word of God, what would we rely on? Jesus stated that He was the truth...when you have truth, why settle for anything else?
Marques
--- End quote ---
Your response reminds me of a type of a religious rebuttal. My discussion is not some secret attack against Ray, bible-truths or Jesus or the scriptures.
But if I was to question Ray, bible-truths or Jesus or the scriptures then so be it, but it never means I am questioning them so say, but my understanding of them. And I would hope you would be aware that Ray is much more a thinker than most of those who come preaching. It is this use of this God given ability that has helped him expose the many contradictions. And this is what I do as well. And one last thing, all I have is words to communicate and manipulation of them to represent a bias interpretation of what I am going after is not of my doing. This again is clear proof how the mentally of man gets interjected in words, and yes we do this with the scriptures as well. I can speak and I will speak it with words, but if they do not fit a religious understanding set pattern it does not mean it is wrong. I can speak truth without quoting someone else who lived a long time before me. Again be aware of how much Ray writes his papers with his own words to express the same ideas expressed maybe in a few quotes of scriptures.
Jeff
Robin:
When I still believed in the teachings of the church I realized that deceived people don't know they are deceived. I started thinking of all the people who were sure they knew the truth and each had a different truth. I thought I could be one of those people too although I didn't think I was at the time. I prayed that God would show me if I was deceived and he did. I started learning truth.
A few years later I was watching Star Trek and Will Riker kept waking up in different realities and didn't know which one was real. God showed me that I can't trust myself. I am not able to keep myself from deception. Deceived people don't know they are deceived. I can only put my total trust in him to keep me from being deceived and humble myself before him. I still to this day ask him to show me if I am decieved and ask him to keep me from deception. It is all in his hands and he is in control. It was very scary to have that rug of self reliance pulled out from under me. When I found Bible-truths I found that I was still deceived about many things. I feel comfortable now putting it in God's hands and trusting him to open my eyes.
Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: M.G. on October 25, 2008, 03:33:31 AM ---When I still believed in the teachings of the church I realized that deceived people don't know they are deceived. I started thinking of all the people who were sure they knew the truth and each had a different truth. I thought I could be one of those people too although I didn't think I was at the time. I prayed that God would show me if I was deceived and he did. I started learning truth.
A few years later I was watching Star Trek and Will Riker kept waking up in different realities and didn't know which one was real. God showed me that I can't trust myself. I am not able to keep myself from deception. Deceived people don't know they are deceived. I can only put my total trust in him to keep me from being deceived and humble myself before him. I still to this day ask him to show me if I am decieved and ask him to keep me from deception. It is all in his hands and he is in control. It was very scary to have that rug of self reliance pulled out from under me. When I found Bible-truths I found that I was still deceived about many things. I feel comfortable now putting it in God's hands and trusting him to open my eyes.
Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
--- End quote ---
This is a great comment M.G. ;)
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: WhoAmI on October 25, 2008, 01:42:10 AM ---Your response reminds me of a type of a religious rebuttal. My discussion is not some secret attack against Ray, bible-truths or Jesus or the scriptures.
But if I was to question Ray, bible-truths or Jesus or the scriptures then so be it, but it never means I am questioning them so say, but my understanding of them. And I would hope you would be aware that Ray is much more a thinker than most of those who come preaching. It is this use of this God given ability that has helped him expose the many contradictions. And this is what I do as well. And one last thing, all I have is words to communicate and manipulation of them to represent a bias interpretation of what I am going after is not of my doing. This again is clear proof how the mentally of man gets interjected in words, and yes we do this with the scriptures as well. I can speak and I will speak it with words, but if they do not fit a religious understanding set pattern it does not mean it is wrong. I can speak truth without quoting someone else who lived a long time before me. Again be aware of how much Ray writes his papers with his own words to express the same ideas expressed maybe in a few quotes of scriptures.
Jeff
--- End quote ---
Hello Jeff,
I don't understand where you continue to take this discussion. George, Lin, Dave, Kat & Brenda all stated they understood where you were coming from but also that ultimately they relied on the Word of God for truth in matters. Why you choose to continue to harp at me, the one person who DOESN'T UNDERSTAND what you mean, is bewildering.
1. You began this thread asking what we relied on to gauge our spiritual growth. George and I stated the Word of God.
2. Your next comment, is how if one's beliefs are false then they can't rely on scripture since they are spiritually blind. I understand that, but you asked members here who have eyes to see and ears to hear. We ultimately rely on the scriptures...even with Ray's teachings.
3. This last comment is all over the place. 'A religious rebuttal'? Which quote? Who ever said you were making a sneaky attack? When has anyone said that your words need to fit a 'religious understanding set pattern'? If you make accusations, where are the quotes???!!!
But to stick to the main subject of this thread, we ultimately rely on the Word of God to establish any spiritual truths/growth. How do we do that? By comparing spiritual to spiritual for a SPIRITUAL MATCH. Ray goes over this and other spiritual truths in great detail in this paper: http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
Also, if you, personally, feel that God is molding you and giving you more understanding and you want to share, go ahead. If it is of God, it will NOT contradict the scriptures. If it is of God, more than enough members here will give an amen. Don't think that the members here are rigid when it comes to new spiritual understandings. But do take heed if they show that scripturally this new understanding is not of God. Even if you don't agree, seek God and he will lift you up and show you the truth.
Thanks,
Marques
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