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Author Topic: What is the turth about Paul??  (Read 7500 times)

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Beloved

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2008, 06:08:19 PM »

We need a dicitionary section here on the BT board ...otherwise for pernicious see strong delusions. . 

It may be simpler to bookmark that Miriam web site, I just added it to my Look Up Folder..

beloved
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AK4

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2008, 07:39:59 PM »

Darren

I had joined this one forum and there was this guys who discredited not only Paul but also 80% of the NT because he said it was written by either Paul or one of his cronies. (Almost all of the NT books, and heres a kicker --he was of the Jewish faith somewhat and he did believe OF Jesus and only some of the things Jesus said, but everything else was "interpolations from Paul and his cronies")

This is how it unfolded between me and him--

He brought the alleged accusation
I was appalled, scripturally "fought" back, but everytime i used something from the NT that would show how much of a hypocrite this guy was and all his beliefs, he would just say "oh that was written by Paul or one of his cronies so its not true"

I gave up for a couple of days and even questioned if he was right. 

I came back again with "okay i wil just used the OT to prove Him wrong"--- I did this and then he started denying some things in the OT also even saying that the book of Job wasnt scripture.  But by using just the OT i felt cornered and i remembered what Ray put in his Foundational Truths paper--"dont let them corner you" (paraphrasing)

So next i realised that i wont limit myself i will use all scripture, but this time i will turn his own words back on him because i started noticing him slipping up his words. (This guy really hated Paul)  This guy said something and i basically told him that he should be careful because now your starting to sound like the guy you hate (Paul).  His defense was that he was quoting Jeremiah not Paul so i said to him something like so if Paul is in agreement with Jeremiah, who you believe, why wouldnt you believe Paul is also speaking Truths? 

And his response....Im still waiting on it and its been like a month or so.  But in another thread he was posting some more hogwash and i confronted him on that and destoyed his theories again till he didnt want to talk to me any more. I basically to him thats okay but i will still respond to any of his posts that contradict the Word. 

So now its at the point of where He used to post long posts, it is now to one or two sentences and i told him--

"Very gooood!! I have taught you something. If you keep your responses short, its less things i have, to use your own words against you.

Good job"

I guess what i am getting at is that this guy threw at me this Paul stuff and it was the first time i had ever heard of it and it did make me wonder and when i did give up at first i knew that if i didnt get the full answer it would possibly grow into more and more doubt, so i refuted this guy and the more i refuted him the more evidence God was giving of Pauls apostleship.  That guy thought i was only talking to him because he thought i was trying to save him in the way that traditional christainity does it but i told him flat out that no i am not trying to save you at all, Im using you.  Using you to strengthen my faith.  (Well not me using him, but God using him to help strengthen my knowledge of scripture)

Paul never contradicted anything in OT and as for the NT that that guy said Paul and all his cronies wrote didnt contradict the OT and they didnt even contradict themselves.  I told him that Paul must of been a genius to write all that and him and his cronies never contradicted.  With all of mankinds advances today we cant get that kind of fluidity, that is in the whole Word of God, on any subject these days.

I dont know i thought i would share my story. 

Hope it helps

Anthony
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winner08

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2008, 08:37:32 PM »

Anthony great post. I do remember Ray saying don't let them push you into a corner stay on the offensive. Yes this is good

Darren
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winner08

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2008, 01:58:25 AM »

First of all go back and read my post. for your information I never said I wanted any definition of any words. I said. Second of all, you should not assume anything if you don't know What I said. Like Ray says read the words.
Third I don't recall asking you anything.


I am happy with my vocabulary: I don't need,want or ask you for any help. Back OFF

Darren
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winner08

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2008, 06:57:51 PM »

Look I'm sorry for being rude. I had a real bad day and I took it out on you. You did't deserve that.

Darren
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Jackie Lee

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 11:28:47 PM »

A close internet friend almost convinced me Paul was a false apostle, but then nothing seemed to fit scripturally.
I hated to do it but had to break the tie with her, I didn't even know why I was doing it at the time but understand now.
I am not sure why so many hate the apostle Paul?
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winner08

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 11:59:17 PM »

Thanks A. all is good.

Darren
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aqrinc

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Re: What is the truth about Paul??
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2008, 02:09:28 AM »

Ok children  8), back to study hall for chastening  :o. All right, chastening done  ;D; now where are the other
dragons to slay  ???. On second thought lets drop in on longhorn and take Craig and Dennis, they have
been a bit (moderately) under the weather and acting weird :-\.

george.

Thanks A. all is good.

Darren
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 02:11:26 AM by aqr »
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Heidi

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2008, 08:12:06 AM »

Look I'm sorry for being rude. I had a real bad day and I took it out on you. You did't deserve that.

Darren

I am very proud of you Darren.....Mat 5:9 Blessed the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God   

I am so glad that things have been resolved, I am proud to be part of this family.

Love
Heidi

PS read your post in "off topics" as well, God is good!
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Marlene

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2008, 05:40:52 PM »

Darren, I love how we all can see how that spirit living in you convicts. I never seen that in most of the organzied churches I went to.

This forum is a blessing to us and helps us all in our walk.

Love To All
Marlene

Also, its good to see the ones forgive so easily that speaks for there spirit also.
God reigns !
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high pulpit

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2008, 04:17:50 AM »

Interesting topic and I believe we should not just be lazy and cast out anything that is contrary to our present beliefs but should continue to analyse and strengthen our knowledge of the truth.
I say this because there are some very salient doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter, for example, which warrants some indepth study.
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Heidi

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2008, 05:18:34 AM »

......because there are some very salient doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter, for example, which warrants some indepth study.

Hi there high pulpit and welcome to the forum.  Here is an emailed response from Ray regarding this very subject:

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#PeterPaul

Dear Ray:

Well I read part of your "Secret Rapture" Out of love there are a few things that I disagree with. In the paragraph that starts like this, It makes me sad to see sincere believers buy into a divisive theory!

I agree that Peter and Paul were both spiritual giants.

But when you say there was a mutual love and respect for each other. and that they worked together sharing knowledge. where in scripture do you find this?

Gala.2-11:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I (Paul) withstood him to the face, because he (Peter) was to be blamed. 12) For before that certain (Peter) came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. (Jews) 13) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their DISSIMULATION. 14) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel. I said unto Peter!!!!"

It sure doesn't sound to me that they were buddies.

Then you say that Peters epistles directly correlates with Paul's Epistles. If so why did Peter say in 2Peter.3-16 As also in all his (Paul's) Epistles, speaking in them of these things:in which are some things hard to be understood   They sure don't correlate when Peter says this, do they?

Ray If you want to correspond with me great. But lets get one thing straight, any time that we make a statement, we will give scripture and verse. But if you are to busy, then you are to just to busy, But as for me I am never to busy when it comes to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

In His Grace Chet

[Ray Replies]   


Dear Chester:

Where is the Scripture that Peter and Paul shared knowledge and were in agreement you ask?

When Paul and Barnabas came to Jerusalem it states that

"...they were received of the church, and of the apostles [one being PETER] AND ELDERS..." (Acts 15:4).

"And when there had been much disputing PETER rose up, and said to them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that THE GENTILES BY MY MOUTH SHOULD HEAR THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL, and believe ... Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and PAUL ... And after these had held their peace, JAMES answered ... Then it PLEASED THE APOSTLES [there was harmony between Peter, Paul, and James in this conference] and ELDERS, with the WHOLE CHURCH..." (Acts 15:713,22).

"It seemed GOOD unto US [the chief apostles including Peter and Paul] being assembled with ONE ACCORD [Perfect harmony here], to send chose men unto you with our BELOVED Barnabas and Paul [you might recall that it is PETER that calls his brother Paul, "BELOVED"], men who have hazarded their lives for the name of OUR Lord Jesus Christ [I don't see any animosity here]" (Acts 15:25-26).

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as OUR BELOVED PAUL [I don't see any friction or animosity here, do you?] also according to the WISDOM given unto him hath WRITTEN UNTO YOU; As also in all  his epistles [Peter had THEM ALL!], speaking in them of THESE THINGS [the SAME THINGS that Peter writes about]; in which are some things hard to be understood [but PETER UNDERSTOOD THEM, THAT'S FOR SURE!], which they that are UNLEARNED and UNSTABLE WREST [THESE are the people who don't "understand" Paul's epistles, the 'UNLEARNED and   UNSTABLE'!!]" (II Pet. 3:15-16).

Peter then tells them that,

"YE therefore, beloved, seeing YE KNOW THESE THINGS [the one's that Peter is writing to are not the "UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE," NO, they 'KNOW THESE THINGS'] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the ERROR OF THE WICKED [they were the one's not understanding Paul's epistles, not Peter!], fall from your own steadfastness. But GROW IN GRACE AND THE KNOWLEDGE [sound like Paul does it?] of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" (II Pet. 3:17-18).

One does not extol the virtues of a man as Peter does and call him 'BELOVED BROTHER' when one is supposedly having a feud going one. The splits, and divisions, and animosity, etc., etc., is nowhere to be found between the circumcision and uncircumcision saints or between Peter and Paul, but is rather found in the carnal minds of those who write such unscriptural trash! Paul confronted Peter--ONCE. But years and years later we see that they were in perfect harmony (as I believe they were immediately after the confrontation in Gal. 2). 

Do we think that either Peter OR Paul where so carnal as to hold a lifetime GRUDGE?   Paul said, that we are not to even "let the sun go down upon our wrath" (Eph. 4:26), and you think they held a grudge ALL OF THEIR LIVES?   Peter called Paul "OUR BELOVED BROTHER." Does that sound like there was a division between them?  Beloved brother. What was Peter's teaching concerning the "brethren?"

"Finally, be ye all of ONE MIND, having compassion one of another, LOVE AS BRETHREN, be pitiful, be courteous; Not rendering evil for evil" (I Pet. 3:8).

Do we believe that Peter didn't even follow his own instructions?

"Honour all men, LOVE THE BROTHERHOOD" (I Pet. 2:17).

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BRETHREN, see that ye love one another with a pure heart FERVENTLY" (I Pet. 1:22).

And just why do you suppose, that of all people, it was Silas (Paul's traveling companion) who urged Peter to write his epistles in the first place?

It makes my blood boil with I read and hear of those who would teach others of NON-EXISTENT divisions and enmity between even the chief Apostles! HOW DARE any try to make Peter sound like some carnal-minded slob who held a lifetime of anger against Paul?

Chester, your last statement is really an uncalled for cheap put down. You say that your are "never to busy when it comes to MY Lord..." But I AM? Is that what you are suggesting?  How many days have you answered emails for SIXTEEN HOURS STRAIGHT without a break or even breakfast, lunch, or dinner?  And "MY" Lord is also the Lord of the whole world!

Sincerely,

Ray

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Rene

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2008, 09:08:25 AM »

Interesting topic and I believe we should not just be lazy and cast out anything that is contrary to our present beliefs but should continue to analyse and strengthen our knowledge of the truth.
I say this because there are some very salient doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter, for example, which warrants some indepth study.

high pulpit,

You are wrong.  Ultimately, there were NO doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter.  They became "spiritually" one with Christ and likeminded. 

René
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 09:20:12 AM by Rene »
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indianabob

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2008, 02:06:02 PM »

Interesting topic and I believe we should not just be lazy and cast out anything that is contrary to our present beliefs but should continue to analyse and strengthen our knowledge of the truth.
I say this because there are some very salient doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter, for example, which warrants some indepth study.

Welcome to the forum and I look forward to hearing from you.  I'm Indiana Bob and I live in Culver, IN a small lakeside town about 50 miles South of the Michigan State line.  Been married 47 years to the same pretty girl and enjoy sharing ideas, history of the U. S. and history of the church.

Just curious about your name "high pulpit".  How did you come by that name and does it express any certain approach to email communication?

Regards, Indiana Bob
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aqrinc

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Re: What is the truth about Paul??
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2008, 03:01:45 PM »

Not to be a chorus but; high pulpit what you say is Scripturally wrong, yes there was disagreement between
Paul and Peter at first. Anyone who reads the Acts of the Apostles can easily discern from a straightforward
reading (even like a book) that the differences were in their understanding and it was argued and discussed
and then agreed mutually that they were both preaching the same Gospel.

Read: http://bible-truths.com/emails.html#PeterPaul

or Read: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.msg49583.html#msg49583

Much more to read but i need to go to work.

Love and Peace brother,
George.



Interesting topic and I believe we should not just be lazy and cast out anything that is contrary to our present beliefs but should continue to analyse and strengthen our knowledge of the truth.
I say this because there are some very salient doctrinal differences between Paul and Peter, for example, which warrants some indepth study.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 02:03:22 AM by aqr »
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cjwood

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2008, 01:00:02 AM »

high pulpit?
heidi gave you an excellent link to the truth from the scriptures themselves. i can only exhort that you read and study them. i believe you have been fed a lie regarding to the true relationship between peter and paul. God will show you the truth if you honestly want to know the Truth. of course, He already knows what you want and don't want. i too am curious, as is indianabob about you avatar name.

claudia
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gmik

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2008, 01:01:33 AM »

Wow, what an interesting thread.  (On several levels).

Paul was sent to the Gentiles.  Jesus brought His message to the Jews.  I hope I am correct on this.  So I actually spend more time in Paul's epistles as I figure they are to ME (a gentile).

I haven't heard of this new message going around about Paul.  Hope I don't. I don't get the purpose of it.  Wasn't there a group ((the Concordant bunch??)that was saying Paul's gospel was a diff. 2nd gospel and higher or something???  can't remember. But I read it on BT (maybe e mail section).
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Robin

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2008, 07:27:30 AM »

I think they have to receive the truth or kill the messenger. If they receive the truth they will have to acknowledge the beast. " O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

John 3:
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

They hated Paul in his time and they will hate him now.

2 Corinthians 11
   What anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. 22Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham's descendants? So am I. 23Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. 24Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, 26I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my own countrymen, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false brothers. 27I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. 28Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

 30If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying. 32In Damascus the governor under King Aretas had the city of the Damascenes guarded in order to arrest me. 33But I was lowered in a basket from a window in the wall and slipped through his hands.

John 15:
18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
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AK4

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2008, 09:20:48 AM »

So far it has been my experience that is it mostly those of the Jewish faith that are trying to discredit Paul.  As i stated in an earlier post that guy has a couple of threads on different subjects trying to negate Paul-(He acknowledges Jesus as a savior, but only of the past Israelites to bring Judah.... I dont know some nonsense)-- and its getting easier and easier to prove this guy wrong even without using something he considers was written by Paul or "his cronies".

Anthony
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winner08

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Re: What is the turth about Paul??
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2008, 10:51:17 PM »

Anthony, I am going back and forth with this person for a month now on Paul. How Paul did not teach what Christ or the apostles taught. Finnally I just said James and peter who at first may have not agreed on Paul's teachings had a meeting and came to the conclusion for Paul to continue his way of teaching the gentiles. I then said If you believe that God's Will is ALWAYS done would you not say that God put His stamp of approval on Paul? Would you not say that if God did not want Paul to teach the way and what he taught that God would  have stop him? God let Peter and them  know that it was His will for Paul to do what he was doing and that they (peter and them) would back him. The more I think about it, did not Paul say he knew how and what to teach because he was taught by the Holy Spirit? Did Paul know anything about what Jesus and the disciples taught. Did he understand their teachings before God struck him? Was not Paul tottally against the teachings of Christ and wanted to destroy it. Wouldn't being taught by the Holy Spirit be just as if he was learning from Jesus Himself ? Not having a clue to what or how to teach, to knowing what and how to teach, that's awesome.

What exactly did Paul teach that was against what the disciples taught?
I figured that Paul got his wisdom directly for the Holy Spirit. Is not  the way he got it? If so, is not that the greatest gift to a man? To have the wisdom given to you directly from God? It would seem so to me. But I could be wrong. But I'm not. Not on that.

Thanks,

Darren
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