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Author Topic: Prayer  (Read 3029 times)

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winner08

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Prayer
« on: November 01, 2008, 10:18:10 PM »

Prayer. Whatever we ask for in Jesus name is already done. I have read this in another post and it is confusing to say the lest. According to Ray's paper on Prayer, we can not recieve anything that is not already going to be given from God. Is this not correct? If we pray for healing or help and it is not in God's will then no amount of prayer will change Gods mind. why, because we all know that God does not change. So why did Jesus state the above? Ask in My Name and you shall recieve. Seek and you shall find Ask and you will be given to you, knock and the door will open. These are not direct quotes from scripture. My question is still vailed. Ask and you shall recieve. So many people's love ones die in terrible ways all the prayer in the world wont change that. Seek and you shall find. Really? Some seek all their lives and never find. Knock and the door shall be open. Really, When? Please no one take offence to my post. My purpose it not to offend. I am just wondering why what excatlly does that scripture mean.

Ask and you shall recieve
seek and you shall find
knock and the door shall be open
All these done in Jesus Name.

I read these request for prayer on our site and it got me to thinking. Will God give these people what they need? Only if it is in His Will to do so in the first place. I should have said what they want. wanting and needing are two different things.
Is prayer really for our own peice of mind?
 I read the request portion of our site everyday and I write the names and the problems down in my note book at night before I go to sleep. I ask God to help my family (yall). I say the name and the problem and at the end of my prayer I always say in Jesus name please Lord help them. Man there's so much hurt going on so much pain I sure do pray that God does help everyone? All this brings me back to square one. If our prayers are not in Gods will in the first place, before we even ask then it will not be done Is this correct?

Thanks,

Darren

PS. I pray all yall prayers come true.
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Beloved

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 12:20:14 AM »

God is Spirit, most of our prayers concentrate on our physical wants and needs. God has given each of us different trials to deal with.

Look at His Son...Jesus prayed mornings and evenings and before many events like raising Lazarus....

Look at the Gospels...when Jesus was in Gethsemane  He prayed three times...He was not praying about going to the cross...He knew that going to the cross was his destiny...

For that hour he had to deal with satan...who presented all of the horrors and humiliations that he would have to endure...   

Look early in his ministry after the 40 days
(Mat 4:11)  Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
Mar 1:13  And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

(Luk 4:13)  And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.  Satan could not bother Christ till now.

But In the Garden

(Mat 26:39)   And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
                                    .....
(Mat 26:42)  Again, a second time, having gone away, he prayed, saying, `My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from me except I drink it, Thy will be done;'
Understand that if it cannot pass unless taken in then I will do your will
(Mat 26:44)  And having left them, having gone away again, he prayed a third time, saying the same words
                                    .....
Mar 14:35)  And having gone forward a little, he fell upon the earth, and was praying, that, if it be possible the hour may pass from him,

Mar 14:36 and was saying-Abba! O Father! All things, are possible to thee: Bear aside this cup from me; but not what, I, will, but what, thou, wilt .

(Mar 14:39)  And again having gone away , he prayed, the same word saying;
                               ........
Luk 22:42 saying-Father! if thou be willing, bear aside this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be accomplished.

(Luk 22:42)  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

(Luk 22:43)  And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.(     do you see the connection

Luk 22:44
)  And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
 Instead of the wonders of the world satan shiwed him all the horrible things that would occur then and maybe even later in the ages until His Fathers Will would be totally fullfilled.                     
                                         ...........                           
(Joh 18:11)  So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath! The cup which the Father has given to Me, shall I not surely drink it?"

He took he cup of dealing with Satan and had no fear the rest of the way

(Joh 19:30)  when, therefore, Jesus received the vinegar, he said, `It hath been finished;' and having bowed the head, gave up the spirit.

Jesus went through all that pain because He fully knew the purpose.of His Father ....

We pray because we too need to be in agreement with His purpose....even when we do not understand.......yes satan will show us all the ugly things too

We do know that God is Good, Faithful and True.  We are to endure...and be faithful....not in ourselves but in Him.

We are not asking,seeking or knocking for physical things...things of this life but for the spiritual things...to know Christ His Word and to be One with the Father.

(Luk 11:11)  If a son shall ask bread - word of God)  of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone -  a stumbling block? or if he ask a fish - meat , will he for a fish give him a serpent = false doctrine ?

(Luk 11:12)  Or if he shall ask an egg - life , will he offer him a scorpion - death ?

(Luk 11:13)  If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Hope this helps

beloved

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Richard D

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 12:57:29 AM »

Hi Darren.

Thatís exactly right , if itís not in Godís plan we donít get it but I might say God has our best interest at heart. I look at this way Iím a three year old kid and I want a motorcycle and God says no because He knows I will get killed on it.

Ask anyways because we do not know the purpose of God or the will of God. I detect anger in your thread which is normal I believe, but it is what it is. Its Godís plan and we are Godís work of clay.

I donít understand many things or why this or that happens but I do understand God is making us into his sons or daughters. One day this age will come to a close and our suffering will come to and end. Be patient because we are only mortals and donít understand or see the bigger picture.

Why was I laid off from my place of employment? I made more money than I could spend and was comfortable in life but now I depend on God for my life. Why does one die and the other one live? Why is one man rich and another man poor?

Youíre absolutely right Darren, God will not change His mind and if itís not Godís purpose for us to have something or answer our prayer what can we do? Who knows better God or us?

I hear what youíre saying Darren but I know God is in control of all things in heaven and earth. Donít be angry but happy because God is calling you. And in the end all will be saved.

A flower cannot grow with only sunshine right, it needs the rain too. Will we only except good from the hand of God and not evil?

There are many things I donít understand Darren but I do know its God who calls the shots and not us and let us say that you God.

I look at in this way, its Godís way or the highway of destruction. No one said it was going to be easy in fact with much pain and tribulation do we enter into the Kingdom of heaven.


I donít know if this helps you Darren but someday this will all make sense.
God bless you Darren as you continue on your journey with the Lord.  :)


                  In Godís love. Your friend and brother. Richard.     
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Robin

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 01:51:31 AM »

Thank you beloved.

That is a great explanation of the process we go through.

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Rene

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 08:49:48 AM »

Thank you beloved.

That is a great explanation of the process we go through.




I have to say an "Amen" to that. :)

Renť
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cherokee

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 08:52:50 AM »

Thank you beloved.

That is a great explanation of the process we go through.




I have to say an "Amen" to that. :)

Renť


I second that Amen.

Suzie
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ericsteven

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2008, 04:48:22 PM »

In Rayís talk, How Hard is Getting Saved, he expounds upon the false belief by many that according to Acts 2:21, all one has to do to be saved is to call upon the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:21   And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

He goes on to quote numerous Scriptures that explain exactly what ďcalling upon the name of the LordĒ means.  He teaches that itís not a matter of looking at just that one verse, but looking at what the whole of Scripture says on the subject and building Scripture upon Scripture.  After naming about 8 more things a person must do to be saved, he says, ďAnd now youíll be saved?  You havenít even started!Ē  Basically, it's not as easy as it looks.

In like manner, here are some verses that may give some insight into this subject of asking and receiving. 

Matt 18:19ff   Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.  For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.

     Are you in fellowship with others who are in agreement in the name of Jesus?

Matt 21:21ff   Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.  And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

     Do you have the faith without any doubts that what you ask will be done?

Mark 11:23ff   For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.  Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

     Again, do you truly believe that what you ask for you will receive?

John 14:13ff   And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

     Is that for which you are asking glorifying the Father through the Son?

John 15:7   If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

     Do you abide in the Christ and do His words abide in you?

James 1:4ff   Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.  If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.  But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.  That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double minded man, unstable in all he does.

     Do you have doubts about whether what you ask will happen?  Is what you ask for only a wish, or do you truly believe God will
     give you what you ask?

James 4:3   When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

     Are you asking with the right motives?

I John 3:22   And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

     Are you keeping His commandments and doing those things that are pleasing in His sight?

I John 5:14   This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.  And if we know that he hears us-whatever we ask-we know that we have what we asked of him.

     Do you ask believing that He hears you?  Is that for which you are asking according to His will?

This may lead some to ask, ďHow do I ask according to His will if I donít know what His will is?Ē

John 6:39   And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 

John 6:40   And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Gal 1:4      Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Eph 5:15ff   Be very careful, then, how you live - not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.  Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.

I Thes 5:14ff   Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.  See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

James 5:13ff     Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.  Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:  And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Iím sure there are more, but in essence, does what youíre asking for contribute to or promote what these Scriptures say His will is for you and for those that are His? 

One final Scripture, perhaps the most important for any of us to remember:

I Thes 5:18   In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Does this help?

God bless,

Eric





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cjwood

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 03:18:26 AM »

darren,
this is what i will say about prayer. i cannot recall in what teaching of ray's it is discussed, but i remember a posting that i believe was started a while back by hillsboro, which stated that per this particular teaching of ray's that, with some things God is just waiting for us to ask Him for (via prayer). He of course knows that He is already going to answer our prayer, but, He is waiting for us to ask it of Him first. and, when we do ask in prayer for some particular need that He is just waiting for us to pray for, we don't even ask for it until He causes us to ask/pray for it. so, ask God for anything and, according to His will it will be done. i know you are going through detox from major pain meds. i know that God is the One Who put that desire in your heart. i know that He will bring you through the process that He started in you. so darren i would exhort you to not be concerned about if God will or won't answer your prayers, JUST ASK HIM. He could be just waiting for you to come to Him prayerfully for whatever it is you need. HE KNOWS YOUR NEEDS AND HE WILL MEET YOUR NEEDS. He knows you need to be free of the prison of pain meds and He wants the best for you. remember HE LOVES YOU more than you can comprehend. Let Him love you. ask Him for your needs like you used to ask your earthly father for whatever you truly needed as a child. stay strong and of good courage.

love in our Saviour,
claudia
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Ninny

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 12:54:01 AM »

I was thinking about this and remembered how God called on Abraham to take Isaac to offer him up as a sacrifice. Abraham obeyed God even though his father's heart was probably crying out to God as Jesus did "let this cup pass from me". God provided the sacrifice, Abraham only obeyed God by taking the trip and preparing Isaac. There is no indication that Abraham balked at all in obeying There isn't anything I've read that Abraham even said except he told those who went with him that they were going to give an ascent offering and they'd be back. He expected God to provide the sacrifice. What does that tell me? God requires obedience! Obedience is the hard part of being saved. Keep calling on the name of the Lord That means obedience.
When Abraham and Isaac went to the mountain God fully intended to provide the sacrifice,he waited for Abraham to obey and to keep obeying, that isn't easy! That shows us that God honors obedience, even though God knew that Abraham was going to obey. This story of course is found in the 22nd Chapter of Genesis.
 Even though he made mistakes Abraham was obedient! God was so in charge of everything he even  had a purpose for Abraham's bad choices!
 I'm glad that even the greatest men in scripture were human and made mistakes and didn't always make wise or right decisions. They were just obedient and repentant. How else can humans expect God to answer their prayers? ??? Just me rambling on!
Kathy :)
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aqrinc

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 03:21:02 AM »

Kathy,

Well said, Obey because you trust that God know's what is Right and Good Always. Easy to do
when things are going well, very difficult when we (Beastie) want it now no matter what.

Love and Obey,

george.
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Decky

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2008, 10:07:04 PM »

Prayer continues to be an enigma for me. I've mentioned my struggles on another forum topic, and was recommended to read Ray's paper on prayer-which I did several times-and have read the comments on this topic. Darren voices my very same sentiments. All I can gather from the fact that the thought of praying almost literally makes me sick to my stomach-mainly because I've asked the Father for an egg(My Dad's life spared)and he gave me a scorpion(My Dad's death)-is that it's simply not given me to pray for anything now. I had a close friend ask me to pray for her because she was facing a very risky back surgery, and I could not muster up a prayer for her other than, "Lord. bless her," and even then my stomach balled up in knots and a small rage bubbled up in my heart because I know that God isn't going to answer my prayer unless it's his will. This is one thing I gathered from Ray's paper, if God isn't giving you to pray for something, chances are, it aint gonna be done, because we have not if we ask not. It's just not in me to talk to God or ask him anything, because I don't see him as being faithful to his word at all.

I  don't know how long this will go on. All I can do now is just try everyday to hold on by my fingernails. But in all honesty, prayer, to me, continues to be a big mystery if not one big joke.
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mharrell08

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2008, 10:35:54 PM »

Prayer continues to be an enigma for me. I've mentioned my struggles on another forum topic, and was recommended to read Ray's paper on prayer-which I did several times-and have read the comments on this topic. Darren voices my very same sentiments. All I can gather from the fact that the thought of praying almost literally makes me sick to my stomach-mainly because I've asked the Father for an egg(My Dad's life spared)and he gave me a scorpion(My Dad's death)-is that it's simply not given me to pray for anything now. I had a close friend ask me to pray for her because she was facing a very risky back surgery, and I could not muster up a prayer for her other than, "Lord. bless her," and even then my stomach balled up in knots and a small rage bubbled up in my heart because I know that God isn't going to answer my prayer unless it's his will. This is one thing I gathered from Ray's paper, if God isn't giving you to pray for something, chances are, it aint gonna be done, because we have not if we ask not. It's just not in me to talk to God or ask him anything, because I don't see him as being faithful to his word at all.

I  don't know how long this will go on. All I can do now is just try everyday to hold on by my fingernails. But in all honesty, prayer, to me, continues to be a big mystery if not one big joke.


Hello Decky,

I understand exactly where you are coming from. The subject of prayer can be a very difficult subject to understand especially considering the heretical junk we once learned. I struggled with this issue for a while and sometimes reflect on it still as I am still trying to understand it completely.

Here is an excerpt from Ray's paper on Prayer that you mentioned (http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm):

Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.

Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didnít.

But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesusí greater desire was that His Fatherís will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered pray and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.

If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you donít get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. Godís will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go), will always be done. No prayer has ever changed Godís plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will").


The great enigma is having the will of God be our greater desire rather than our own desire. In this regards, our prayers are always answered. It's the peace of mind that even if you didn't get what you wanted, God's will is still being done and the result is the PERFECT result for your spiritual growth. God's will and intentions are perfect and if our own desires are not answered, it is something that would not have us grow into spiritual maturity. Because if it would have us grow spiritually, He would answer. I know it is a 'hard' understanding but the Spirit will lead you into all truth.

Also, I am sorry for the loss of your dad. My dad is not in the best condition right now but my hope lies in God restoring and purging him into His image. In this age or the next. Rest assured, you will see you dad again in all God's glory.  :)


Hope this helps,

Marques
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winner08

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2008, 06:53:31 PM »

I read and reread Ray's paper on prayer and Our prayers will only be granted if it was already in God's Will to do so. I know somewhere in scripture it says that we don't know how or what to ask for in prayer and this is when to Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. Now this it NOT a direct quote. Ray also said that when he feels inspired to pray he gets excite because God is about to bless him. So God inspires us to pray, If so how can we pray for something that is not of God's will?  I guess that is where the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.OK wait this is going to get more and more confusing so I will stop.
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EKnight

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2008, 08:33:26 PM »

Prayer. Whatever we ask for in Jesus name is already done. I have read this in another post and it is confusing to say the lest. According to Ray's paper on Prayer, we can not recieve anything that is not already going to be given from God. Is this not correct? If we pray for healing or help and it is not in God's will then no amount of prayer will change Gods mind. why, because we all know that God does not change. So why did Jesus state the above? Ask in My Name and you shall recieve. Seek and you shall find Ask and you will be given to you, knock and the door will open. These are not direct quotes from scripture. My question is still vailed. Ask and you shall recieve. So many people's love ones die in terrible ways all the prayer in the world wont change that. Seek and you shall find. Really? Some seek all their lives and never find. Knock and the door shall be open. Really, When? Please no one take offence to my post. My purpose it not to offend. I am just wondering why what excatlly does that scripture mean.

I think Darren is asking someone to explain what those scriptures mean since they don't mean, what at face value, they appear to mean.

Eileen
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aqrinc

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 08:54:32 PM »


Hi Decky,

I do feel the hurt and sincere anger even in your post. Brother one of the drawbacks of our aging is that
we are always seeing more of our loved ones die. That is small consolation for us who live on but; as a
believer you know that we must all die once:

God has made us Great promises all of which he will not ever fail to complete.


Genesis 2:17:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat
thereof you shall surely die.

Hebrews 9:27:
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Isaiah 51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look on the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation
shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

Isaiah 51:12:
I, even I, am he that comforts you: who are you, that you should be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the
son of man which shall be made as grass;


Isaiah 65: 16-19
16-That he who blesses himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that swears in the earth
shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17-For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18-But be all of you glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19-And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Faith Trust and Love Brother.

george.

Prayer continues to be an enigma for me. I've mentioned my struggles on another forum topic, and was recommended to read Ray's paper on prayer-which I did several times-and have read the comments on this topic. Darren voices my very same sentiments. All I can gather from the fact that the thought of praying almost literally makes me sick to my stomach-mainly because I've asked the Father for an egg(My Dad's life spared)and he gave me a scorpion(My Dad's death)-is that it's simply not given me to pray for anything now. I had a close friend ask me to pray for her because she was facing a very risky back surgery, and I could not muster up a prayer for her other than, "Lord. bless her," and even then my stomach balled up in knots and a small rage bubbled up in my heart because I know that God isn't going to answer my prayer unless it's his will. This is one thing I gathered from Ray's paper, if God isn't giving you to pray for something, chances are, it aint gonna be done, because we have not if we ask not. It's just not in me to talk to God or ask him anything, because I don't see him as being faithful to his word at all.

I  don't know how long this will go on. All I can do now is just try everyday to hold on by my fingernails. But in all honesty, prayer, to me, continues to be a big mystery if not one big joke.
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Kat

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Re: Prayer
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 01:43:48 AM »


Hi Darren,

Quote
So God inspires us to pray, If so how can we pray for something that is not of God's will? 

We have to learn how to pray "in His will."  Before we have our eyes opened to this truth we were like unbelievers/Gentiles and did not know God or His will.

1Th 4:3  For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
v. 4  that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
v. 5  not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;

As long as we are carnal minded, we do not know God and we don't pray according to His will and therefore we do not receive what we ask for.

James 4:3  You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.

But when we receive the Holy Spirit, it begins to teach us, so we begin to learn what His will is.

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Paul prayed that the believers "may be filled with the knowledge of His will," because they do not have it to begin with. 

Col 1:8  who also declared to us your love in the Spirit.
Col 1:9  For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Being "filled with the knowledge of His will," and so to be formed into His image.  So now by Christ indwelling you are being given the "wisdom and spiritual understanding" to ask in His will.  But this is a process and we have to learn and grow in this spiritual understanding to know how to ask in His will. 

1Pe 4:1-2 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

I hope this is of some help.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 01:50:15 AM by Kat »
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