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Author Topic: Ever Notice?  (Read 5034 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2008, 10:17:07 AM »

Hi Everyone,

I must say I am really overwhelmed at all the edifying responses as well as another indication or should I say another example of our "like mindedness" expressed in this thread, not that the details of our struggle perfectly match but that the experience of attaining godly patience involves much tribulation (Acts 14:22) for sure.

To eventually obtain this perfected patience is something believers constantly strive for, it will be one of the privileges of being a citizen of His Kingdom. Imagine when the day arrives that we gain our full inheritance and we are truly able to understand why God deemed it necessary for this to be such a constant struggle.

Meditating on this matter, which has really weighed heavily on me lately brings me back to what Ray brought up at the Nashville (2008) Conference about God the Father actually learning patience. We all know that Christ learned obedience/patience (Heb 5:8), but before then I had not considered that even though our Lord is the image of His and our Father that perhaps the Father also experienced a certain anxiety as He formulated the entire creation process, knowing in advance all (pain, suffering, tribulation) that it would take to bring about His Family, a perfect sinless Family.


The following is from;

Where Did God Get Knowledge ? Nashville Conference 2008

 Does God Learn?

I’ve ask these questions all my life.  I didn’t have an answer for them.  But I ask the questions.  Does God learn?  I know He knows everything.  But does He know everything because He learned it all? 

Well I though, there’s a lot of stuff I’m not going to know.  But then I also believed that there is so much more in the Bible than we have ever seen.  I mean it’s in there.  There is so much in there, you just have to pay attention to the words.

You know I look at Scripture and I read them over 30... 50... 180 times and then sometimes something jumps out at me.  I’m relentless, I’m like a bulldog and I beg God.  I say, ’God I don’t know this, show me.  Show me.  I know it’s in there, show me.’ 

Anyway, is there any indication in the Bible that God, before the creation, before there was a universe or even a Jesus Christ, is there any indication that God either learned something or accomplished something that didn’t exist with Him, prior to that?  Some might say, ‘Ray I think you are on dangerous ground.  I think you are talking heresy and this verges on sacrilegion.’ 

I ask the question that I had a debate with Jeff Priddy, I friend of mine, has some screwy ideas, but he’s a nice guy.  I was talking about emotions and he said, ‘Ray God does not have emotions.’  I said, well what is love and how come God is love, if God does not have emotion.  He said, ‘No, that’s just for human terms and He is so way above and beyond that and everything else.’ 

But then over time I got to thinking about that and I said, wait a minute in Galatians 5 we are given a list of the fruits of God Spirit.  One of them in the King James is longsuffering.  Okay longsuffering, what does that mean?  Patience.  What is that made up of?  Is it made up as an archaic English term? 

Longsuffering - to suffer long.  One of the fruits of God Spirit is to suffer long.  How can it be a fruit of God’s Spirit if He doesn’t even possess it Himself? 

I told somebody that I was going to ask a question at this conference; Did God ever do an honest days work in His life?  I mean a really hard day’s work.  Did He?  Well you would say, ‘well He created the universe, that was a little work.’  No, all these Christians theologies say He just spoke it, let there be stars… let there be suns and moons… let there be an earth… let there this and that… just let there be, let it be, let it be and there you are.  Wow I’m tried I think I’ll rest a day.

Did God ever do an honest hard days work in His life?  You say, ‘Ray it doesn’t apply, you can’t apply what we do to what He does.’  How can you say it doesn’t apply?  Jesus Christ worked and He suffered, He had long suffering and He had patience and He was the very image of His Father!  The expressed stamped image of His Father!  And we are to be in the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 08).  In the very image of God and the very image of Jesus Christ, our elder brother.

So how could Jesus have all this love and all this patience and all this mercy and He said everything He got came from His Father.  Every thought He thought, every word He spoke, every deed He done came from His Father.  How can you say the Father doesn’t have patience? 

Patience is doing without something you want, but you can’t have it now.  You have to exercise patience.  You might even have to have longsuffering, you might have to suffer long.  That is a fruit of God’s Spirit.

I could never believe in my heart of hearts that God would expect of us, things that He would not move His little finger to do Himself.

Jesus Christ berated the Pharisees.  He said you load these heavy heavy burdens on people, very difficult for them to do what you tell them they need to do to be holy and righteous and good.  And you would not move them with one of your fingers.

Mat 23:4  For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Is He accusing the Pharisees of something His own Father is guilty of?  Are you following me?  Is Jesus Christ condemning and berating the Pharisees for something His own Father is guilty of… that He lays heavy burdens on us and He wouldn’t lift them with one of His fingers, but we have to?  We have to suffer through sixty or eighty years of sometimes horrible misery and disease and heartache and everything.  What does God know about that?  Nothing?  I don’t think so.  I don’t buy that nonsense anymore.  I think that God has gone through a lot for us.

Read it all here; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html

You know it gives this experience a whole new dimension when we consider that the Source of all life and all creation went through this suffering as well....

Peace,

Joe
 

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Akira329

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2008, 09:43:48 PM »

If I died tomorrow Nashville Conference 2007 and Nashville Conference 2008 would be the two times I grew closer to my heavenly Father and Jesus. I will never forget those two last days! :'(
Thanks for reminding me Joe

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
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"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2008, 09:49:59 AM »

Hi Antaiwan,

I know exactly what you mean.

Peace,

Joe
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kweli

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2008, 10:53:46 AM »

Hi Joe

My post was more aligned to what you started with in the beginning of this thread:

I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.

I hope I wasn't off beat. This is a great thread nonetheless. I think anything that takes away something from my me-ness and gives glory to GOD is essential. Still have to read the transcript on GOD's patience as that had me wondering for a long time before the conference. Thanks for posting it, wasn't aware it was up.
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2008, 12:23:41 PM »

Hi Kweli,

Yes we do tend to vear off in different directions in many threads.  ;)


Clearly Peter did follow Christ. But to follow Him is not enough unless we first deny ourselves. I wont try to pretend to fully comprehend what denying ourselves mean but I see pylady denying herself in her post. If we do believe in no free will then we must believe genuinely that all is not of our doing but GOD's.


Your point is well taken, His ways are so far above our own that sometimes it is very, very difficult to understand and try to put into words. I do know that in my own journey once patience fails then the door is cracked open for all sorts of old temptations and and evil thoughts to flood my mind.

Thank God He inspires me to repent and grab hold of Him and like Jacob wrestling with the Angel (or was it Christ Himself) demanding a blessing.

It is not like before He revealed Himself to me and I could blow off anything I thought, said or did that I knew in my heart to be wrong, now the anxiety level is very high if I feel separated from Him. I know we are never really separated but when our communication is interrupted there is nothing I desire more than to have it reestablished, there is truly nothing of any value unless He is front and center in our lives.

Thanks for your response Brother!

So often I want to reply to each and every response but due to time contraints and sometimes the sheer volume of great posts I just cannot do it, for this I sincerely apologize.....

Peace,

Joe   
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 10:20:10 PM by hillsbororiver »
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cjwood

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 01:13:25 AM »

hi joe,
i also want to thank you for beginning this thread. i am being shown by our Father that just when i think i have learned patience something happens to cause me to loose my patience. as i have said many times, the more i learn, the more i have to learn. kind of like something i was told once: consider a circle with everything inside the circle being what i have learned, and the round line of the circle's boundary representing everything i have yet to learn. as what i learn causes the inside of the circle to grow, the outside boundary line of the circle also grows larger. thus, the more i learn the more i have to learn.

i also can relate completely joe to your statement that now the anxiety level is very high if you feel seperated from Him. i know before God started showing me His marvelous truths, if i would do something that i knew to be sin i thought, well i can just ask Him to forgive me and all will be well with me, but now if i do anything which i don't want to do but do it anyway, my anxiety level raises to the point that i find myself so ashamed of myself and reminding myself how i am so totally unworthy of God's love. only through the spirit of Christ in me am i even able to forgive myself so that i can get peaceful enough to remember that God does indeed love me and i am never truly seperated from Him.

i also want to thank beloved for replying to your thread using the scripture references about wives submission to their husbands and how that submission is not possible without learning patience. thanks beloved, your words were truly spoken to me at the perfect time.

i thank God with all my heart and all my soul for my family on this forum.

claudia
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Vangie

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 07:29:20 AM »


i thank God with all my heart and all my soul for my family on this forum.


I second that emotion, Claudia.  Amen!

Vangie
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hillsbororiver

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 09:46:37 PM »

Hi Claudia & Vangie,

Thank you both for the kind words, I believe this is something many of us can relate to......



i also can relate completely joe to your statement that now the anxiety level is very high if you feel seperated from Him. i know before God started showing me His marvelous truths, if i would do something that i knew to be sin i thought, well i can just ask Him to forgive me and all will be well with me, but now if i do anything which i don't want to do but do it anyway, my anxiety level raises to the point that i find myself so ashamed of myself and reminding myself how i am so totally unworthy of God's love. only through the spirit of Christ in me am i even able to forgive myself so that i can get peaceful enough to remember that God does indeed love me and i am never truly seperated from Him.


So true, I appreciate the additional perspective, from all who contributed!


Peace,

Joe
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Patrick

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 11:35:47 PM »

Quote from: Akira329
If I died tomorrow Nashville Conference 2007 and Nashville Conference 2008 would be the two times I grew closer to my heavenly Father and Jesus. I will never forget those two last days! :'(
Thanks for reminding me Joe

Antaiwan

Quote from: hillsbororiver
Hi Antaiwan,

I know exactly what you mean.

Peace,

Joe

I still tear up thinking about those last two days.

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