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Author Topic: Ever Notice?  (Read 5044 times)

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hillsbororiver

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Ever Notice?
« on: November 08, 2008, 01:41:18 PM »

I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.

Before I started on what I believe to be a spiritual journey, well at least since I have become aware that this life is a spiritual journey experienced in the flesh, I was not one to be mired in anxiety over much of anything, my attitude often could be summed up in two words;

"Screw it."

Sometimes exclaimed more profanely...... Then I would move on and forget about it, at least until I was forced to deal with the situation (or ramifications) at some future point in time, now that "luxury" has been taken away, when selfish or impatient thoughts (even only thoughts) begin to occupy my mind and I do not immediately beg for His Spirit to strengthen me a lot of old temptations also begin to spring back to life, guilt and confusion reign, it is a horrible place to be.

I was reading James Chapter 3 when a few verses popped up and grabbed my attention, it seemed that James was speaking of this very thing.


 James 3

 13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

 14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

 15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (Every evil work!)

 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Which brought this to mind;

Luk 11:24  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Luk 11:25  And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
 
Luk 11:26  Then goeth he and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Ever notice this in your own walk?

Peace,

Joe



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aqrinc

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2008, 02:10:02 PM »

Joe,

Why are you accusing me of such evil behavior; :o . You are so right and those scriptures are like sharp
daggers that reach the heart of our beastly nature. Every day i learn more about how little i know or do
that is right, (unless It come from God).

I am on the road right now but must come in to get my charge for the day. Thank you for those Scriptures; they are Life and Spirit and True.

Love and Peace Brother,

george.  ;D
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2008, 02:54:43 PM »

This life of the called-out can be crazy-making

Romans 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am mere flesh, sold as a slave to sin.15  I don't understand what I am doing. For I don't do what I want to do, but instead do what I hate.
16  Now if I do what I don't want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17  As it is, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me. 18  For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but I cannot carry it out. 19  For I don't do the good I want to do, but instead do the evil that I don't want to do.
20  But if I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me. 21  So I find this to be a law: when I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me. 22  For I delight in the law of God in my inner being, 23  but I see in my body a different law waging war with the law in my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin that exists in my body. 24  What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25  Thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

It seems no matter what we desire, we first have to be shown it is not in us.  To think we can walk in the Spirit in the flesh is preposterous, and is the root of all religion, now matter what form it takes.  No matter WHAT form it takes.

Forget about asking Alice.  Both pills make us larger, and there is no pill that makes us small.   
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Beloved

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2008, 02:59:05 PM »

Thanks Joe, you have put a nice morcel on the board...the more Christ works in you the faster the recognition in these little things...like developing patience

It is like a 3 yr old wanting to help you make a cake, you have to let her make a mess and be willing to clean it up. You have to love both of these the mess and the cleaning . That part that is screaming inside is the selfish beast...the yelling or ranting that you do only discourages the little cake maker.

On the physical side it raises your blood pressure, causes your adrenal glands to put out stree hormones and this starts a cascade of things to happen to your immune system and your heart.

I mentioned it before, but the things that we write here are as much for ourselves as they are for others...


(Rom 5:3)  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;(Rom 5:4)  And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
(Rom 5:5)  And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


Patience serves as a protection against wrongs as clothes do against cold. For if you put on more clothes as the cold increases, it will have no power to hurt you. So in like manner you must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind.
Leonardo da Vinci

beloved
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Richard D

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 05:25:15 PM »

Joe.

Excellent topic, I see myself in a constant state of sin as a result of matching myself with the fruits of the spirit.

Some dayís Iím very patient and other dayís Iím not. Sometimes I see such wonderful qualities of God in me but as soon as I see this, itís taken away.

I often wonder if this is God keeping me humble or am I self deceived. I even see certain sins thatís been apart of my entire life that are so difficult to let go of and wonder again do these things just take time to overcome? Or does God leave these things in my life to keep me humble?

Have you ever heard the old saying once you think your humble you no longer are? I see this operating in my life, once I see myself as forgiving or loving or giving I find myself being knocked down and back at the drawing board againÖÖ.LOL

God knows how to keep me humble.

                                Hope this helps Joe. In Godís Love. Richard.
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frecklegirl417

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2008, 05:47:19 PM »

I have found that when my patience begins to fail (usually due to focusing on self, even subconsciously) that it begins a spiritual (sometimes physical as well) downward spiral where I get progressively more miserable, stubborn and dissatisfied with everything.

Before I started on what I believe to be a spiritual journey, well at least since I have become aware that this life is a spiritual journey experienced in the flesh, I was not one to be mired in anxiety over much of anything, my attitude often could be summed up in two words;

"Screw it."

Sometimes exclaimed more profanely...... Then I would move on and forget about it, at least until I was forced to deal with the situation (or ramifications) at some future point in time, now that "luxury" has been taken away, when selfish or impatient thoughts (even only thoughts) begin to occupy my mind and I do not immediately beg for His Spirit to strengthen me a lot of old temptations also begin to spring back to life, guilt and confusion reign, it is a horrible place to be.

I was reading James Chapter 3 when a few verses popped up and grabbed my attention, it seemed that James was speaking of this very thing.


 James 3

 13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

 14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

 15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (Every evil work!)

 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Which brought this to mind;

Luk 11:24  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.

Luk 11:25  And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
 
Luk 11:26  Then goeth he and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Ever notice this in your own walk?

Peace,

Joe





 To Joe and all that responded,

     All  I have to say is a very big Thank You!  You have given me light on a subject that has been on my mind resently. I have said in the past and now "screw it", until I needed to do something about it. I found this post and read it twice it really spoke to me. I only wish I had some more wisdom to had.
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Marlene

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 06:11:05 PM »

Hello, Right before I found Ray's Website, I had fallen into a sin , that I was not able to forgive someone who hurt me. I now know that God enabled me to stop that sin and also, forgive not only that person, but also see my need to forgive everyone. Right after I found Ray's website I had so many things thrown at me and things I did overcome. I belive he wanted me to mature in my sinful life because he wanted me to take his truth seriously. But, you know this was just the begining. We battle this till we die. Of, this I am sure. After, he showed me his truths he showed me sins in me that I never knew I had.
Well, I was definitely not worshiping him in spirit and truth. I believed in Hell and he took me there. I wanted to die because I thought the sin I had was so bad.
It sure did teach me not to judge people. But, I always did think that the Holy Spirit had to dwell in me in order for me to over come. Right, before I had victory over that sin a Bible verse came to mind. Can't think right now where it isis. But, it came to my mind that he provides a way out of every temptation. Now, I am more conscious of that. But, that mind is truely a battlefield.

I believe that since we all obviously seem to me in the race, that we are seeing the fleshly sins, faster now. I could be wrong, but I really think What Paul was saying is true. We have a battle that rages inside of us , because we now want to do what is right. That old self loves to take its seat. Looks like we all are in the same boat so to speak. LOL But, I also know he put the desire for us to want to run that race. I know he put the desire in me not to want to sin even though we don't go to Hell. Now, I really Love him and I dont want that life of sin. But, its not easy, I do however believe he is able to bring us all to the finish.Glad I have Brothers and Sisters like you in the faith.

In His Love,
Marlene
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Beloved

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 06:30:33 PM »

I just had a conversation with a friend about  another topic but now I am seeing how it relates to other things.  Ray teaches the scriptures are parables and they are.

Well when Paul writes the following lines

Eph 5:22  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord
Col 3:18  Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Many women cringe and can get very uncomfortable with this verse. The problem is that many do not understand that submission and patience are kissing cousins

It does not matter if the husband is a believer, a babylonean or part of the ungodly.   Submission is not about the husband, it is about you...

it does not mean you have to agree with him, and it absolutly does not mean you have be abused by him...

The end of the sentance of the above two scriptures give the clue....you are to be confident that God is in control and that you will follow him and He will bring you to the point where he wants you to be. Your submission means that you live patiently and endure the things that God has planned.

You can see that when a women does this she possess a major strength. You have to draw closer to God to be able to do this.

Now I do not want people to vear off the topic of Patience and start jabbering about submission. I used this to point to the topic.

II Thessalonians 3:5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.

Perhap that is why God inspired the apostle Paul to put so much emphasis on the essential virtue of patience. Patience is such an unnatural way for us to think. It is so against human natureóbut it is so much a part of the way God is.

The demonstration of patience in a frustrating situation is one of the best indications that our character is being developed through the use of the Holy Spirit. It is part of the transformation, the conversion of becoming more like God

beloved


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Jackie Lee

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 06:54:33 PM »

Thanks for this thread, it certainly helps me.  :)
When I think I can't take another minute.
Psalm 46:10 has been brought to my attention for the past few years.
Keeping that verse in mind always helps me.





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Marlene

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 08:30:38 PM »

Jackie, That is a good verse. Being still is hard. I would say that could be linked with patience. Its hard to shut our mouth. That is  the same thing. Just enduring trials and chastening.

In His Love,
Marlene
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Ninny

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 11:48:16 PM »

Thanks Joe and everyone else!
What really makes us angry and bothers us about other people is what God wants to change in us!
Sometimes a person will post on here a question or an idea and other people jump on it and everything gets so complicated! I look at that and say (to myself) what is the deal here  ??? I never join in those discussions because I imagine that God is telling me, "this bothers you because you are a person who likes to add your 2 cents worth." (Like God would know THAT about me!)  ::) I look at me and think, "God am I really like that?" A pastor I know once said, "what boils up in us is what God wants to skim off!" Ewww! That is just so ugly! It reminds me of the nasty looking stuff that rises up to the surface when you boil a big piece of meat it's not very appetizing!  :P God must really love me He just keep skimming stuff off!  :D
Listening not very quietly!
Kathy ;)

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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2008, 04:29:40 AM »

You bring forward an interesting angle to patience Beloved. Submission is not without power and wisdom.

This reminds me of this scripture :

Luke 20 : 18 Everyone falling on that stone (kicking and falling against the goads perhaps?) will be BROKEN (broken like a wild horse is broken and made obedient perhaps?) but on whomever it FALLS ( like out of the blue it falls without expectation on those who are self assured) it will grind him to POWDER (like wow, there is nothing left of the fabled self reliance dishonourable vessel)

Better to be broken and not pulverised! Yet this work of patience is a process that assures that once we have been broken we shall lack nothing and we shall be perfect.

James 1 : 4 But let patience have its perfect work that you may be   (broken ) perfect and complete, lacking nothing.

It is wise to be broken and wisdom is required to let patience have its perfect work in us.

This scripture comes to mind for me to also reflect on :

Heb 12 : 11 All discipline for the present indeed does not seem to be joyous, but grievous; but afterward it gives back peaceable fruit of righteousness to the ones having been EXERCISED by it. Like Ray is experiencing that peaceable fruit evidenced in his latest communication to us. Ref quote from Ray : I have had not one anxious day about my condition after those three initial days of emotional turmoil when first presented with the raw facts concerning my dire prognostication at the cancer center back in July.

May God continue to bless Ray in his wonderful example to us, and give him the great spiritual strength to endure and to each one of us the same as we are exercised through our own personal struggles with pain and suffering.


Arc
« Last Edit: November 09, 2008, 04:49:14 AM by Arcturus »
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Vangie

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2008, 09:27:44 AM »

This is such a wonderful thread.  I'm absorbing so much from everyone who's contributed.  Thanks to all for sharing.

Love in Christ,
Vangie
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Akira329

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2008, 11:37:36 AM »

Along with James 3 and Luke 11
I think of 2 Peter 2:20:

2Pe 2:20  For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22  But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

aqrinc

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 01:58:26 PM »


Joe,

I find this Scripture again jumps out at me; i have learned that in part, wisdom is the ability to glean
knowledge from that which someone says even if they do not say it well enough.

george.

Job 11:6:
And that he would show you the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is! Know therefore
that God exacts of you less than yours iniquity deserves.
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Pini56

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2008, 11:04:14 PM »

I Hope This Will Encourage Everybody:

Philippians 1:6:

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

With Love Geoff
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pylady

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 02:42:51 AM »

Joe,  Thanks for bringing up this thread on patience, something which I've struggled with, and you've made me think deeper a about it.  Beloved, your tying in the vs about a wife submitting to her husband zeroed in on my problem.  you see my husband has a very "difficult" personality and I have to pray constantly for patience.  It doesn't seem to come naturally to me!

I've found that praying for patience has helped me control my tongue and my actions, and helped me to know that God loves my husband and he is exactly what God wants him to be right now.  Knowing that is a tremendous help to being patient and loving to him even when I feel he doesn't deserve it!  And I know God is patient and loving with me even though I don't deserve it.

But my question is this.  Even though I can learn to  control my words and actions I know that sin begins in our hearts.  How does one control the inclination of one's heart?  I pray for this because it seems we have some control over our words and actions, but when my husband says something unkind or impatient to me the inclinations of my heart is to answer unkindly.  The inclination is there even before the thought is formed.  It seems I have no control over this.  This is the very heart of the beast in me.  I am a complete slave to my carnal nature!  It seems impossible to slay the beast when he is there before I am even aware he is there.  Yes I control the words and the actions, even stop the thought of answering unkindly and impatiently but I cannot control the inclination. 

WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.  We will not be perfect until all the inclinations of our hearts are love.  It seems it will take a lifetime and beyond.  But perhaps part of the process is being made aware of our failings which makes us hate the sin.
God's judgments make us look at ourselves in all our ugliness (hence the beast), and realize we cannot be beautiful (like a beautiful bride) unless He changes and prepares us.  It's difficult to look in the mirror and see ourselves, when we want to look in the mirror and see Christ.

Thank God He sees us as we will be.
An often ugly sister,

            Cindy  ;)
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Marlene

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 03:00:56 AM »

Geoff that verse you gave is wonderful. I often have to remind that one to myself.

Cindy, I can agree with you, that beast is always there. I felt hurt today, when in reality no one was trying to hurt me. Self just loves to get in the way. Every day is a new day. Like the scripture Geoff gave us he can bring us to where we need. He has started the work and he will finish. I know, its all him because I have alot of flaws. Patience is the key. I am so glad he has that. Lots of times I can't stand the beast I see.

In His Love,
Marlene
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Rene

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 09:06:41 AM »


But my question is this.  Even though I can learn to  control my words and actions I know that sin begins in our hearts.  How does one control the inclination of one's heart?  I pray for this because it seems we have some control over our words and actions, but when my husband says something unkind or impatient to me the inclinations of my heart is to answer unkindly.  The inclination is there even before the thought is formed.  It seems I have no control over this.  This is the very heart of the beast in me.  I am a complete slave to my carnal nature!  It seems impossible to slay the beast when he is there before I am even aware he is there.  Yes I control the words and the actions, even stop the thought of answering unkindly and impatiently but I cannot control the inclination. 

WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.  We will not be perfect until all the inclinations of our hearts are love.  It seems it will take a lifetime and beyond.  But perhaps part of the process is being made aware of our failings which makes us hate the sin.
God's judgments make us look at ourselves in all our ugliness (hence the beast), and realize we cannot be beautiful (like a beautiful bride) unless He changes and prepares us.  It's difficult to look in the mirror and see ourselves, when we want to look in the mirror and see Christ.


Hi Cindy,

I thoroughly enjoyed your comments.  In answer to your question, How does one control the inclination of one's heart?, I know, you know, we can't.  Only through Jesus Christ can that beast be changed and defeated.  This scripture comes to mind whenever I'm thinking on this subject:

Romans 7:24-25 - "A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord."  (Concordant Literal NT)

Renť

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kweli

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Re: Ever Notice?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 09:56:52 AM »

Am liking where this one is going...

John 6
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him. [I dont know about you, but John triple 6 shows me the beast within]
67 Then Jesus said unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?"
68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life,
69 and we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God."

Matthew 10
33 But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in Heaven.

Mark 14:72
And the second time the cock crowed. And Peter called to mind the words that Jesus had said unto him: "Before the cock crows twice, thou shalt deny Me thrice." And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Luke 9:23
And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily, and follow Me

Clearly Peter did follow Christ. But to follow Him is not enough unless we first deny ourselves. I wont try to pretend to fully comprehend what denying ourselves mean but I see pylady denying herself in her post. If we do believe in no free will then we must believe genuinely that all is not of our doing but GOD's.
I Hope This Will Encourage Everybody:

Philippians 1:6:

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.

With Love Geoff

Geoff, I'm truly encouraged. Thanks for the reminder.

One thing I learned from Ray and will always keep (GOD-willing) is that it is not about me but all about HIM/Him.

All Glory to GOD
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