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Author Topic: I Need Your Help  (Read 2961 times)

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Decky

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I Need Your Help
« on: November 17, 2008, 09:41:12 AM »

Hello Forum,

I am soliciting your heartfelt and sincere advice. First of all, let me say that over the last two weeks, I have slowly been regaining my trust in the Lord again. My prayer life is still a little lagging, but I can sense that the intense anger I've felt for the past year has subsided significantly.

Now, for my question. I recently read an opinion on another site that a Christian should not be a policeman. I have been one for almost 10 years, and have always felt that this is where the Lord has me, which I know is true regardless, but the scriptures that were used were very compelling, mainly Psalm 17:13, and all of Jesus' admonishments to "put away the sword," and to "resist not evil"-which I have to do on a daily basis, as the very purpose of my job is to resist evil perpetrated on innocent citizens-and also the fact that I have to do violence on anyone who resists, contrary to what John the Baptist told the soldiers when they came to be baptised(Luke 3:14).

So, my heart is pricked to consider another career. But I wanted to ask you all what your thoughts are on the matter. I'm not going to just go and quit without searching the matter more fully(And also making sure I have another job lined up, or I'll lose my house!), so any advice or insight anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I answered my own question, but again, any insight I believe would be of help.

Thank you,
D
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 10:24:12 AM »

In a perfect world there would be no need for police.

You are in an honorable profession and I see no conflict.

Mat 8:8  The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

Mat 8:9  For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Mat 8:10  When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

I don't see Jesus tell the centurion to find another profession (sin no more).

And I agree that you should not give up the bird in your hand. Jobs may be very hard to come by soon.

Dennis
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Samson

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 10:30:07 AM »

Hello Forum,

I am soliciting your heartfelt and sincere advice. First of all, let me say that over the last two weeks, I have slowly been regaining my trust in the Lord again. My prayer life is still a little lagging, but I can sense that the intense anger I've felt for the past year has subsided significantly.

Now, for my question. I recently read an opinion on another site that a Christian should not be a policeman. I have been one for almost 10 years, and have always felt that this is where the Lord has me, which I know is true regardless, but the scriptures that were used were very compelling, mainly Psalm 17:13, and all of Jesus' admonishments to "put away the sword," and to "resist not evil"-which I have to do on a daily basis, as the very purpose of my job is to resist evil perpetrated on innocent citizens-and also the fact that I have to do violence on anyone who resists, contrary to what John the Baptist told the soldiers when they came to be baptised(Luke 3:14).

So, my heart is pricked to consider another career. But I wanted to ask you all what your thoughts are on the matter. I'm not going to just go and quit without searching the matter more fully(And also making sure I have another job lined up, or I'll lose my house!), so any advice or insight anyone can offer will be greatly appreciated. I have a feeling I answered my own question, but again, any insight I believe would be of help.

Thank you,
D

   Good Morning Dechy,

                                An interesting Question, one that I won't pass Judgement on, but consideration of
                                your last paragragh, " your Heart being pricked ", I'd like to add Romans. 14:23b. " INDEED
                                EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT OUT OF FAITH IS SIN. " If the possibility of killing someone
                                in self defense while performing your duties bothers your conscience, maybe you could
                                find another job within the Department that doesn't put you in that position.

                                The same principle might apply regarding Warfare, " NOT BEING PUT IN A POSITION
                                 WHERE I MIGHT KILL SOMEONE." I personally wouldn't want to be in that position in
                                 either case, preferring an alternative, as it might bother my conscience, BUT I'M NOT
                                 YOU and won't pressure you in either direction, letting God work in you through prayer
                                 and your personal Scriptural reflection. I don't recall anything specific from Ray on being
                                 a Policeman, but by what you state in your Introduction, I wish we had more like you, ones
                                 that care what they do.

                                                               Kind Regards, Samson.
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mharrell08

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2008, 10:35:41 AM »

In a perfect world there would be no need for police.

You are in an honorable profession and I see no conflict.

Mat 8:8  The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

Mat 8:9  For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Mat 8:10  When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

I don't see Jesus tell the centurion to find another profession (sin no more).

And I agree that you should not give up the bird in your hand. Jobs may be very hard to come by soon.

Dennis

I agree with Dennis and Samson as well. Here was an email that Ray wrote responding to Alex's question on the same subject regarding professions:

Dear Alex:  The main criteria in selecting an occupation or profession is whether you can obey God doing the things that your particular profession requires.  Could you be a policeman?  Possibly, but it would be hard to justify shooting people if necessary.  Medical doctors push drugs. Many drugs are extremely harmful, whereas a few are very beneficial. But there are certain protocols to administering proper medications for virtually all diseases. You will not last long if you buck the system and decide for yourself which drugs you will or will not administer. See what I mean?  If you had your own private practice, it is more feasible to stick to only low-risk, very beneficial drugs, but when you are coming up through the ranks, you do not have this privilege. Can one be a lawyer and be totally obedient to God? Yes. Will you be very successful, as the world measures success?  Maybe not.
Etc. This is a big topic, and I do not like to get involved in making such decisions for anyone. This is an area you must look at very carefully for yourself, I'm afraid.,
God be with you,
Ray



Hope this helps,

Marques
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musicman

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 01:24:14 PM »

If you feel that your calling is to be a police, don't leave that profession.  We need good police men/women.  Defending others from evil is not resisting evil against yourself.  And if you don't defend yourself in a certain situation you will not be able to defend others.  I know that this is tricky one.  Someone points a gun at you, you feel that you are breaking God's law by firing back.  First of all, don't make up such scenarios in your mind and follow the oath that you took.  I'm sure part of that oath is defending yourself in the line of duty.  Perhaps I'm wrong about that, though.

Oh, and no Rodney King incidents, please!!
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Ninny

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2008, 04:23:17 PM »

Policemen and women are like soldiers. We may abuse our privilege of being peace keepers by going out and trying to make a name for ourselves, but someone has to protect the ones who can't protect themselves. Our soldiers and police stand ready to protect our doorsteps and that's what they should do.  The soldiers and police are like the "guard at the gate" if there were no sentries then chaos would reign.  :'(

God knows your heart and no one should judge you for what you believe God is calling you to be. I will pray for God to give you a clear conscience about what you do as an officer of the law. I assure you that if all policemen walked off the job this would be a sad society indeed! :'(

I say this in defense of the brave men in uniform! (Even if one DID me the first and only speeding ticket I have ever had! I was JUST going 45 in a 30 mph zone!) cost me $120!!  :o  Oh well you can bet I set my cruise control on 30 mph in that place from that time on! ::)

Thanks for what you do!
Kathy :)
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Kat

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2008, 05:20:44 PM »


Hi Decky,

God will lead you in what you should do, listen to that small still voice.  Here is another email that might help.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1719.0.html ---

I printed EVERYTHING on your site and arranged it into books, my eyes were OPENED, my wallet EMPTIED from buying ink cartridges. LOL.. I have one question that is really bothering me. In two instances you made semi-negative remarks about serving in the military or CHURCHES  that are pushing military service. Also I seem to remember some surprising remarks that our nations founding principles were not Christian in nature. I am going by memory, so forgive me if my impressions are off base. What about the scriptures that "The state does not wield the sword in vain", and that Roman soldier converts were told to be happy with their pay and not extort, but NOT told to leave their position, etc... Could you clarify your position? Certainly our nation is NOT perfect, but we have done much to "restrain evil in the world". Historically I don't think any nation with the power we have has ever used it so sparingly. I am a militar y retiree and served my country honorably and faithfully. Probably my patriotism and conservative political idealism are idols of the heart. I know my zest for politics is fading rapidly. Shouldn't we do all we can to restrain evil, as a policeman, soldier, politician,etc?
Please answer as I REALLY WANT THE TRUTH and am not trying pick an argument.


Dear Austin:
Yes, God has ordained "the powers that be," and there is no power or authority except by God.  Does this somehow "prove" that these powers are "Christ like?"  I think not.  One CANNOT turn the other cheek while shooting your enemy in the stomach--that is what we would call a contradiction of doctrine or philosophy.
 
God doesn't hate soldiers, but neither has He called and chosen them to be His very Elect either, while serving in the capacity of professionally trained killers..  Suppose a professional soldier (who literally kills people for a living) becomes a Believer in Christ Jesus. We know that to follow Jesus we must first repent.  Are you suggesting that "killing people" would NOT be one of the things he would repent of?  That he would have to repent of telling lies, lusting after pretty girls, stealing cookies from the cookie jar, but that he would NOT HAVE TO REPENT OF KILLING PEOPLE to protect his nation?  Think about it.  There was a time when True Believers looked to God to protect them from their enemies, not to the number of tanks and bombers they possessed.
 
God be with you,
Ray

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2008, 06:32:30 PM »

Decky, I'm with Dennis on this.

I'll add just this:  Though Paul never specificly mentioned 'police' or similar, he did exhort people whom the Lord had called to Himself to remain where they were...so I hope that encourages you to think well of your short-term decision to stay put.

I've known police for almost all my adult life and before, having had them as neighbors and friends.  I'm sure you'd agree they are a breed apart in many ways and their place in society is not as interchangeable as working in retail, for example.  To my mind, learning to trust and obey God while IN a job like that could be of more spiritual value than finding an easier path.  Many jobs have certain qualities that make it challenging to obey and trust the Lord.  Yours more than most.  Jesus is Lord and ultimately it is He who will cause you to decide. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

EKnight

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 08:50:14 PM »

Decky,

Being a police officer IS a calling.  And those that answer that calling make for good police officers. 

My husband is a good father, a faithful husband and an honest and loyal police officer.

We need more God-led men and women on our streets protecting us from the evils that lurk.

God bless you in your work.

Eileen
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hammerandnails

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 12:32:03 AM »


Hello Decky,

I believe that if God does not want you to be in this profession, he would move you Himself!

I was an RN, I did it for my mother, she hammered me that I was gonna be one since I know that
I existed! I was a very good one too. Promotions and recognitions and all. I really cared about my patients. But something was missing and I knew it. I could not put my finger on it, but I knew it!
 God did not want me there. So He moved me! How it happened it does not matter, the point is that it came to pass. Then
I was working for a money hungry, greedy employer. I did not do anything dishonest or anything, but I felt very
uncomfortable working for him, because the schedule that he would give me required that
I cut corners.
God moved me from there too! I got fired for a reason that it made no sense!

I am happy to report that God provided a new job for me after 6 mo. of unemployment. It happened today! ;D ;D
He showed me time and time again that He can and will do whatever He pleases in my life, and I have no saying in it!
Praise Him!!!

The point that I am trying to make is stay where you are, if something doesn't seem right to your spirit,
talk to Him.
I have to remind myself over and over again that He is my Father, and I can tell Him anything.
So, talk to Him, do your job with honesty and integrity, and if He wants to move you, put your seat belt on please...LOL!! ;D ;D

I hope this helps.

Lost in His Love,
Ariel :-*
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Decky

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 10:00:51 PM »

Thank you all for your input. I gather that this is one of those things that I'm being anxious about, and we are admonished to be anxious for nothing. So I'm going to try not to worry about it. But I have decided to apply for the fire department.
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Ninny

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 11:06:52 PM »

Decky, Whether you choose to be a policeman or a firefighter either is a noble profession if God leads you there.
Kathy :)
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Heidi

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 05:12:35 AM »

Decky....I pray that God will grant you wisdom and that you will be able to hear His voice as He leads you in your walk....remember, a walk that has been preordained and purposed.....have Peace in your heart.....He is in control and only He can lead you as to your next move.
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cjwood

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2008, 03:09:15 AM »

hi decky,
after reading through the replies to your original post i can only add that i believe it is God who caused you to question your job as a policeman in the first place. He knows everything about us and even knows the words we will say before we say them, and He knows the thoughts we will think before we think them because He has preordained our steps on the path He has chosed for us. i loved your response to your post replies where you said that you have applied for the fire department. i will say a special prayer for you in that endeavor.

claudia
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indianabob

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Re: I Need Your Help
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2008, 02:13:18 AM »

New Friend Decky,

There is not much more I can add to the comprehensive advice already given, but I can share a little history.

I was a police officer in the 1960's, married with a growing family in a small town 8,000 pop. in Lake County, Indiana.  I had come to believe that God had a place for me in His Kingdom and like you I had reservations about being willing to exercise deadly force in my job.  I even thought about going to work with an empty weapon so I wouldn't be tempted in moments of stress to over react.  Of course that idea had to be scrapped because I had a sworn duty to protect the public and an equal concern that I would not be able to support fellow officers in a fire fight.

At present, 40 years later, I still have reservations about using lethal force in self defense, partly because I believe that most innocent civilians, especially believers like us, could do more to avoid trouble if they worked on it.  God is able to protect us, but we don't have His promise when we regularly take foolish chances or tempt Him.

The decision to continue as an officer with the discression and authority to use deadly force is a large responsibility and based upon what you have already written I sense some reluctance to put your family in the position from this point forward, of having to live with the criticism that may come your way if you have to kill someone in the line of duty.  I believe that it is different when we are soldiers.  The subject we shoot is a stranger and not known in our home town. That doesn't even include the psychological trauma that may be ours to live with.  People are strange and even today they seem to expect police officers to shoot the gun out of the felons hand rather that to aim for the body's center of mass for a quick, positive take down.

On the other hand, Fire Fighters seem to generally have a higher approval rating and although it may be even more dangerous than police patrol officer, one of the fringe benefits could be more time with the family depending upon the work schedule.

After leaving the force I found that my wife felt better about her future and that I would be around to help raise our four children with school events and sports etc.

The last point is how long you should take to decide and find another job.
If you believe that God is calling you to lay down your badge and if you are required to take a life in the near future, how will God feel about you?  Is forgiveness available in the same way that it would be if you just quit and obeyed your conscience as soon as possible? 

Are you putting off doing the "right" thing with the hopes that you won't need to shoot anyone in the mean time?  These are things that bothered me all those years ago and I took a chance and fortunately was able to begin my new job before I had to face that choice.

Now my understanding is, that God is VERY patient and does fully understand what you are going through and that forgiveness is always available even though we are often slow to act when our conscience leads us to take action.

What ever your decision is, put your future and your faith in God's capable hands and trust Him to guide your path.  Pray without ceasing . . .

Thanks for the good question and welcome to the forum,
Warm regards, Indiana Bob
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