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Ninny:
I was just reading Fools, Hypocrites, Snakes I was just thinking how Jesus was so adamant about exposing the motives of the leaders. This isn't really a deep thought just an observation really. The church I belonged to for so many years was overseen by a large conference of leaders. It was like a government in itself. Really it was run like a government. I guess all large denominations are run like that. In the church I was in when we got the annual financial statement the local church in addition to all the money they sent to the "church government" they sent 10% of everything it took in in tithes and general offerings as a tithe!  I guess this was so the congregation would see the example and pay their tithes.

Then of course we had to have bake sales and what not to raise money for programs for the children! With all the money sent in to the "mother church" I never understood why they didn't have money for local church items even like Bible study materials.  I can understand why Jesus rebuked them in NOT a pleasant tone! This is just a waste and to me it is cheating little old ladies out of their social security!
They should have been saying "All little old ladies on social security are exempt from paying tithes." I wonder how many of the elderly folks may have gone without things they really needed to be "obedient" to God.
Strange!
My thoughts,
Kathy :)

Beloved:
I am not sure what point you are trying to make

The church is basically collecting tithes as you point out for the accumulation of wealth, they do not take care of the needy as directed by Christ.

However the elderly who pay tithes are not exempt either....they give tithes in order to obtain righteousness through works OR perhaps they buy into the name it claim it doctrine ...where they are promised to get 100 fold return on their investment....they are not necessarily being obedient by paying tithes.

If you look in the Gospels at the difference that Jesus points out.   

(Mar 12:38)  And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
(Mar 12:39)  And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 
(Mar 12:40)  Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
(just like today living high on the hog doing just what you pointed out )but will be held accountable for their actions

(Mar 12:41)  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
(Mar 12:42)  And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

(Mar 12:43)  And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

(Mar 12:44)  For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

She did not cast in  10% she threw it all in....declaring that she was totally dependent on God

Even if these people did think they were being obedient...they gave their money to the church and they got their carnal return. 

They do not need to buy any special BIBLE STUDY material....a bible and perhaps some paper would do. (Jesus and His disciples never said we needed any )  AS far as the Bible goes, it would help if when they opened it they were able to actually read it and understand it.

The church likes it hierarchy....it like all government..... is based on power....it is the power that leads to the wealth :P

Beloved

Ninny:
You are correct again, Beloved! You are always right :D :D :D
Naw, I wasn't really making much of a point just an observation I guess. I never thought of the people paying their tithes to get their financial return! I used to pay tithes because I really thought I was being obedient to God. I just thought that's what you're supposed to do! I honestly don't remember ever thinking that if I paid my tithe God would give it back to me! If I thought that way I never saw the check in the mail! Ha!
It has only been in the last three years or so since I started coming to BT that I learned the tithe is unscriptural!

I have never liked "Bible study materials" anyway-BORING!! :P

Now I do believe in giving- like you mentioned the widow who gave all, yes she knew that God was taking care of her. Live or die it was God's anyway!  God is all and over all and it is He who takes care of us! I don't see anything wrong in setting aside a tithe of your income to have it available to help those in need. I know someone who does that ,but they don't tell what they do or when, they just do it. I know about it because it's a member of my family and when they wanted to do that they asked my advice about it. I said, "That's between you and God." I gave them Ray's paper on tithing and they agreed that's what they would do.
Thanks again for wisdom from scripture,
Kathy :)

Beloved:
yes many will accept the No tithing paper that Ray presents, People like getting out of Hell and having more money in their pockets....

Do you see these two beliefs accepted on the surface...still can be idols of the heart .......because they can be self serving. They are only the entree of the meal....there is a lot to eat and chew on.

Ha ha...I am not always right...I was just coming from another perspective...we all contribute when we study the Word.

Php 3:15  Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

The problem is that we have to remember freedom from Tithes does not mean freedom from Giving to God....we are only lowly steward who have been given the job of taking care of "some of HIS possessions"  Are we being GOOD Stewards...really representing our Master....are we acting in accord to HIS Will.

We are fed by this site, but do we support it with funds or with words , we see people in need...but do we serve them in the Name of our Master.... Do we invoke His name in our prayers but fail to use the resources that he has provided that might help the person in need under certain occasions?

This is where "the tire hits the road" and the wolves in sheep clothing get squeamish....we do not want to be that widow with the two mites. I know that I am way too often the 

(Mar 12:41)  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

(Luk 21:4)  For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Remember the parable of the three  stewards,  each wer given ten talents....the most sucessful did not hold on to the ten but gave a little here and a little there ........and the fruit of giving.... returned to His Master...not to him.

Boy is this speaking to me today

Beloved

aqrinc:
Hi Kathy, Beloved,

Here is a short testimony from my (purely carnal past). This is what most others still contend with.

The great deceiver has a few tricks up his sleeve too. I used to pay because i thought that was the way the
system worked from GOD. When i stopped paying several times it seemed that money stopped coming in and
my work would not prosper. Naturally i started paying again and things would seem to settle down and go well.
This was a cycle that had me really confused for years and believing the system was designed that way. The
reason i say Satan has his own tricks is that it really appears to be a reward system that is scriptural if one is
only able to understand carnal things. Eg: give - receive, sow - reap, seed - fruit and on and on. The cunningly
devised fables of man and Satan are indeed a powerful attraction for the carnal (physical) mind.

In That Day; when we see the breathless evil and cunning of the deception we call progress (while we were
still carnal) is when we cry out to GOD to rescue us from the body of this death.

Reading and listening to: how hard is getting saved smacks all that deception and cunning into the dust.

george.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

How Hard is Getting Saved?
by L. Ray Smith

Bible Truths Conference
Nashville TN 2005

Who gave me this newspaper…The Tennesian—the article is called “The Scripture has the Last Say on Who is and Who isn’t a Christian.” By Betty Joe King.

She says, “There’s an awful lot of talk around media, politicians, and anybody else who can draw a public audience, about what a Christian is, what a Christian believes, and what a Christian does.”

I’m just going to hit a couple of the high points. I’m not going to read the whole thing.

“A Christian is a person who believes and accepts the authority of the bible.” (King)

True or False. There are all kinds of “bibles”. Bible is a translation of scriptures that could be a fairly good translation or a very bad one.

“God wrote the Bible…” (King)

See, these are misconceptions…God didn’t “write” the bible. God INSPIRED the writing of the Holy Scriptures. (which were not written in archaic English, Japanese, Chinese, or Mongolian) Any foreign language that the Scriptures are translated in are BIBLES: God did not write the Bible….this is total heresy.

“Just for the record, let me lay out for you just what a true Christian is or believes: 1)Man was created in the image of God” (King)

If you believe how it’s worded in the King James, that God created man (past tense), in the image of God, you will NEVER EVER understand the scriptures. If you don’t understand Genesis 1:26, you will never understand the scriptures because that verse tells us why God made humanity; and if you don’t know why He created humanity, how will you ever know what this is all about? And here’s a typical Christian. Now, you know we’re not talking just disparagingly about Christians who believe these things, I believed them! We’ve all been deceived. And we know they are deceived. We love them. But this is heresy. I’ll talk a little bit about that.

“If Adam and Eve had not sinned, there would be no such thing as death.” (King)

See, what they think is, God created first of all a great Archangel, one of his most spectacular creatures of all. Right? And the whole thing went belly-up! Bad idea…He gave it His best shot, but it didn’t work. Well, He was a novice. This was His first attempt at something really big like this. And it just didn’t turn out. His own creation turned against Him. He says then, “well, let me try something different. We tried the spirit beings, let’s try the physical beings.” So He made Adam and Eve. Made them perfect.

I just flipped on (the tv) for a couple of minutes, while I was having my coffee two days ago and Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland were together. And Kenneth was saying how when God made Adam, you couldn’t even see him; he was so radiant and beautiful, so absolutely glorified, you couldn’t even see he had a body. He was so glorious.

But God screwed up again, see, He gave him this thing called “free will” and boy, that went bunkers. Now God is trying for six thousand years to get us back as good as we were when the whole thing failed!! Is that not basic teaching? We want to get back to as good as it was?? When it FAILED? If we truly have free will, at what point in eternity do we lose it that we don’t do the same thing all over again: turn against God. Do people think about this stuff in Christianity? NEVER, never ever do they think about this.

It doesn’t say, “so God CREATED man”. The word is CREATING. And the words are, “Creating is God humanity.” That’s a difference “He created man,” than “Creating is God humanity.”  It’s a process, it’s still going on. If Adam was the best God could offer, it wasn’t very good because it failed.

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