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Author Topic: An encouraging thought about Death  (Read 3759 times)

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Jackie Lee

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An encouraging thought about Death
« on: December 01, 2008, 10:38:06 PM »



AN ENCOURAGING THOUGHT ABOUT DEATH

Death has two different meanings that are essential for us to differentiate:

The ACT OF DYING or termination of life.

The STATE OF BEING DEAD.

All humanity will experience "the act of dying," but absolutely no one will ever experience the "state of being dead." And this is because:

"For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything…" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

This may be comforting to some, but scary to others. It all depends on your point of view; your perspective; your emotional stability; your up-bringing; your understanding. What I want to do in this little article is give you an encouraging perspective of death. "How can anything be encouraging when it comes to death?" you are probably asking. Well, let me try and answer that for you.

Virtually every time that I have read that verse (dozens of times), it was to prove to someone that we do not have an immortal soul that lives on after death of the body, nor do we have consciousness as is taught in Christendom. But this past year I took another look at this verse and saw something else that I had never contemplated before.

Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either. This is the encouraging part.

"The living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

Let’s think about that for a few moments and see if this is not quite encouraging.



I found this article interesting,
 I remember a couple years or so when I had surgery it was the oddiest feeling when I woke up I remember saying to the nurse, so this is what it is like to be dead.
 I knew nothing felt nothing until I woke up I had lost all track of time.
My question is when we are resurrected will it seem as if we just went to sleep even though it could be many years?
I also found it interesting all we would know is consciousness.
 
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EKnight

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008, 12:02:02 AM »

Oh jackielee I am so happy you brought this subject up because a few weeks ago I wondered exactly the same thing but then these things leave my mind.  I wondered what will it be like and how will it be when we are resurrected.  I don't know about anyone else but I get kinda startled when someone is standing over me trying to wake me up and I wondered (carnally) if that's what it would be like.  I know it won't because it is my heart being "jump started" in the mornings that causes the startling and I know I won't be awakened like that.

Anyway, interesting thoughts.

Eileen
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cjwood

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008, 02:42:44 AM »

1 cor. 15:51-52 "lo! a sacred secret unto you do i declare: we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet; for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

moment - g823 - atomos - from g1 (as a negative particle) and the base of g5114; uncut, that is (by implication) indivisible (an "atom" of time): moment.

twinkling - g4493 - rhipe - from g4496; a jerk (of the eye, that is, (by analogy) an instant: - twinkling

it is my understanding that from the time of our death until the day of our resurrection it will be "in an instant, in an atom of time" almost like the snap of a finger but possibly even quicker than that.

there are others on the forum who can probably add to this.

love in Christ,
claudia
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Kat

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008, 10:48:14 AM »


Hi Jackie,

Quote
My question is when we are resurrected will it seem as if we just went to sleep even though it could be many years?

I put together some emails that I think will help your understanding.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6460.0.html ---------

Dear Ray, can you please tell me why did Jesus said in Luke 8 that the little girl was not dead but sleeping? don't they mean the exact same thing? please explain.

thanks
Jim

Dear Jim: The reason is that to God people who die are no different to Him than people who are sleeping are to us. We can WAKE UP a sleeping person easily and quickly. In like manner God can WAKE UP a dead person easily and quickly just as if he were only sleeping.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2542.0.html -------

> Phil 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 But if I am to
> live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not
> know which to choose. 23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions,
> having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much
> better; 24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
> 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all
> for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that your proud confidence
> in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.
>
> I know you commented on II Cor 5:8, about how being abscent from the body
> does not automatically mean being present with the lord, but I was
> confused by the meaning of the verses above where Paul talks about "having
> a desire to depart and be with Christ". The fact that he contracts being
> alive with being away from Christ, it sounds as though he is implying that
> to die is to be with Christ, immediately. If you could clarify these
> verses, I would be most grateful. thanks in advance.
>
> Jason

Dear Jason:

Things are not always what they "sounds as though."  Paul knew that "the living
know that they shall die, but the dead know not ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9:5).  Therefore,
to Paul, when he died, he would be "immediately" with the Lord, even though it might
not literally happen for seveal thousands of years.  Paul SPECIFICALLY stated how
and WHEN he expected to be resurrected to life--"AT THE LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:52),
NOT immediately upon death.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5112.msg40285.html#msg40285 -

Dear Joyce:  There is nothing about the Truth or God's Word that should make us sad. When people die, they are dead.  This is not a terrible thing. God likens death to sleep in many many Scriptures. The only hope of the dead is a resurrection from the dead (a doctrine that has no value or importance in the Church any longer).  Read my short paper: "An Encouraging Word About Death" on my home page.
There is no consciousness in death, hence no one will ever experience being dead. Many will experience the act of dying (unless one is killed instantly or dies in one's sleep), but once we are dead we experience and know nothing (Ecc. 9:5). In resurrection, God in effect, awakens us out of our sleep of death (Psalm 13:3). Our hope is not in heaven, but in resurrection (I Cor. 15 whole chapter).
 
Now John 14:2--"In my Father's house are many mansions [Greek, abodes--same word translated abode in verse 23] : if it were not so, I would have told you, I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am [ON THIS EARTH, not heaven], THERE ye may be also...Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and COME AGAIN UNTO YOU..." (Also verse 28). What will happen to all the Believing Saints who have died over the centuries?  When and where will they receive the "abodes in the Father's House?"  They will live and reign as kings and priests with Jesus at resurrection (Rev. 20:4).  "And has made us unto our God kings and priests: and WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH"  (Rev. 5:10).  Our reward, our special office or abode in God's Kingdom is to SAVE THE REST OF HUMANITY.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3747.0.html ------

True, at death one's spirit returns to God, but it has no consciousness whatsoever. The consciousness is in the soul. Man IS a living soul, and when He dies, he is a dead soul. It is neither the soul, nor the body which are said to "sleep" in death, but rather that death itself is called "sleep."  We are not resurrected with the dead body we died in, but are given a new, spiritual body (I Cor. 15:42-54). Read the first five pages of my Critique of Dr. Kennedy's sermon on Africans, and the Part C of my HELL series for detailed information on the body, soul, and spirit.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1850.0.html -------

All who have ever died will think that they have been resurrected in less than a second after they experienced DYING.  One God has created a human with consciousness, such a creature will never ever experience NON-existence. There can be periods of unconsciousness, as in deep sleep, operations, comas, etc. But the person himself does not "experience" any of these things, only the LIVING CAN BE CONSCIOUS OF DEATH!
 
"The Living know that they shall DIE, but the DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING..." (Ecc. 9:5).
 
It will all work out for good in the end--TRUST GOD.
 

http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#absent --------------------

[Ray Replies]

Of the millions of times a year that this Scripture in II Cor. 5:8 is quoted, probably only about twice is it ever quoted properly. And THAT is partly the reason why most do not understand this verse.

Paul never said: "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." There is NO SUCH SCRIPTURE.

Let's quote it properly: 

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather TO BE absent from the body, and TO BE present with the Lord."

Or as Concordant Literal New Testament renders it:

"...rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

There is a giant difference between the two words "is" and "and." Just the fact of being "absent or separated" from our bodies, does not automatically equate with being instantaneously "WITH" the Lord.

First we DIE and thereby become absent from or separated from our bodies--they decay back into the dust of the ground. But some time AFTER our death we are taken home to be with the Lord. Notice how Paul himself understood this. Are we "at home with the Lord" at the instant of DEATH? No. I Thes. 4:16-17--

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be [at home] with the Lord."

Notice that all the DEAD in Christ rise at the SAME TIME, at His presence in the air. But, not all of the DEAD in Christ DIED AT THE SAME TIME.  Hence they were NOT 'at home with the Lord' at the very time of their death.

Hope that helps your understanding a little better.

Ray

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OBrenda

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 10:59:05 AM »

Hi Jackie Lee,

I can certainly relate to the "Not Knowing Anything" when being put under anesthesia!

Right before surgery I find myself frightened. The loss (of the illusion) of control of our consciousness thinking if we are alert we can protect ourselves! I'm a big baby and usually I'm fighting back tears and panic. Forcing my mind to pray & trust God my Flesh reacts and pulls the other way.

And then wake up....it's all over...except for the pain, and grogginess....it's like nothing ever happened...we have no sense of time passing like we do while we are sleeping. When I wake up...it's like "Yea I made it" Thank you Jesus! The lingering pain & healing is much easier for me to cope with, than the moment before they put me under! Like you I've often wondered if this would be similar to experiencing death?

I believe it is very similar.....In an instant wake up to being the chosen....or to recovery in the rehab of the Lake of Fire!  

Maybe if we think about Death as Spiritual Surgery, that we are placed in a state of not knowing or feeling...to remove a diseased organ, or replace a joint, to perform a heart transplant....to make us into something new healthy and in his likeness?

Just me thinking,
Brenda
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 11:00:45 AM by OBrenda »
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Daddysgirl

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 11:15:59 AM »

Things are not always what they "sounds as though."  Paul knew that "the living
know that they shall die, but the dead know not ANYTHING" (Ecc. 9:5).  Therefore,
to Paul, when he died, he would be "immediately" with the Lord, even though it might
not literally happen for seveal thousands of years.  Paul SPECIFICALLY stated how
and WHEN he expected to be resurrected to life--"AT THE LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:52),
NOT immediately upon death.

Thank you Kat for this. I have wondered on this and was hoping Ray had said something on it.

The rest of the email answers have also been so comforting to read again- a friend got stabbed to death by a boyfriend last night. She had just completed her MD degree 2 years ago. She leaves a 1 year old and the father(boyfriend) later got himself ran over by a moving car. these are the kind of things you'd think you can only read about in newspapers. I have not had a good day at all. Nonetheless, His Glorious Will be done.

Matty
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Decky

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 11:27:50 AM »

Brenda,

That's so funny because I was just thinking the same thing. I've had surgery about two years ago, and I remember the sense of dread that came over me when the anesthesiologist applied the anesthesia. It seemed like I blinked my eyes and then I was in the recovery room. The surgery lasted almost three hours, my experience of it was a split second. That really encourages me when I think about my loved ones who are asleep, and when I think about MY upcoming demise, whenever that is.

Matty I am so sorry to hear about your friend.

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Jackie Lee

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2008, 12:26:27 PM »

Thanks Kat and everyone this leaves me a lot to study.
Death is something that has been hard for me to understand, I wanted to study a bit deeper. :)

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Rene

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 12:48:19 PM »


The rest of the email answers have also been so comforting to read again- a friend got stabbed to death by a boyfriend last night.

Matty

Matty,

I, too, am sorry to hear of the tragic death of your friend.  Prayerfully, the truths of God's word will help to strengthen you at this time.

I have often thought how interesting it is that God has created us in such a way that we experience a "taste" of death and the resurrection everyday of our lives.  We all must sleep daily and we all awaken from that sleep.  I believe this is another example of the physical experience which has a spiritual counterpart.

René

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Akira329

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 02:34:36 PM »


The rest of the email answers have also been so comforting to read again- a friend got stabbed to death by a boyfriend last night.

Matty

Matty,

I, too, am sorry to hear of the tragic death of your friend.  Prayerfully, the truths of God's word will help to strengthen you at this time.

I have often thought how interesting it is that God has created us in such a way that we experience a "taste" of death and the resurrection everyday of our lives.  We all must sleep daily and we all awaken from that sleep.  I believe this is another example of the physical experience which has a spiritual counterpart.

René



I agree Rene! :)

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
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"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
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Jackie Lee

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 06:04:35 PM »

Matty I am sorry about your friend, one thing I just learned through Kat post is it is just as easy for Jesus wake us up dead/sleep as when we are actually sleeping.
To me that is comforting.
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winner08

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 09:33:55 PM »

Hello everybody:
       I have a question. In the Bible they have a story about when God said (I think) it was Elija who was taken up to heaven so that he would not tast death. Well I know there is no one in heaven. So was he taken as in maby moved one place to another by God and then died? Maby a quick death like a massive heart attack. With a death like this he would not have tasted death he would have just died. One second he is alive and the next he was dead. Could the words taste death mean suffering untill death in which case one would be tasting death. Maby not to taste death could be the (suffering part of death)? Not to taste death maby could mean a sudden death? I really don't know. I read Ray's paper on death but i might not have understood it as I should have. Any thoughts?? OH wait I just had a thought. Could I have missed this completeley? Could this story be a spiritual story and not a physical story. Could it mean that he would not tast death (spiritually)? A spiritual death? Maby he died in faith a true believer in which case he would not have tasted a spiritul death. I just remember Jesus said my words are spirit. Ray said the whole Bible is one big parable. If we do not understand that then we have no chance of understanding the Bible. So could this have been a parable of a spiritual death. He would not tast a spiritul death. Man I though I was confused before.

Darren
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Akira329

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 09:42:25 PM »


http://bible-truths.com/email16.htm#absent --------------------

[Ray Replies]

Of the millions of times a year that this Scripture in II Cor. 5:8 is quoted, probably only about twice is it ever quoted properly. And THAT is partly the reason why most do not understand this verse.

Paul never said: "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord." There is NO SUCH SCRIPTURE.

Let's quote it properly: 

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather TO BE absent from the body, and TO BE present with the Lord."

Or as Concordant Literal New Testament renders it:

"...rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord."

There is a giant difference between the two words "is" and "and." Just the fact of being "absent or separated" from our bodies, does not automatically equate with being instantaneously "WITH" the Lord.

First we DIE and thereby become absent from or separated from our bodies--they decay back into the dust of the ground. But some time AFTER our death we are taken home to be with the Lord. Notice how Paul himself understood this. Are we "at home with the Lord" at the instant of DEATH? No. I Thes. 4:16-17--

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be [at home] with the Lord."

Notice that all the DEAD in Christ rise at the SAME TIME, at His presence in the air. But, not all of the DEAD in Christ DIED AT THE SAME TIME.  Hence they were NOT 'at home with the Lord' at the very time of their death.

Hope that helps your understanding a little better.

Ray



Thanks for this post Kat!
I never paid attention to this detail!! :D

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

dredroc

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 07:02:03 PM »

I`ve often thought of death and Resurrection being exactly as you said Jackielee, even before i read Ray`s article and Ecclesiastes 9
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Jackie Lee

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Re: An encouraging thought about Death
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 07:26:11 PM »

Hi dredroc, I am amazed at how God gave Ray all this knowledge and wisdom and he is able to help us learn truth.
This subject of death is comforting when we know truth that no one is in an everlasting hell.
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