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Author Topic: Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?  (Read 2815 times)

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josh

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« on: May 28, 2006, 08:13:19 PM »

While reading through the book of Revelation this week I came to notice in chapter 21 that New Jerusalem is called the Bride of Christ, not the church. (As you might have guessed this goes against everything I have ever been taught!)  I have read and re-read this portion of scripture, along with cross referencing it to the other portions of scripture that mention or make reference to Christ's bride. The more i contemplate the passages of scripture (especially the parables [Matt. 25:1-13 & Matt. 22:1-14] & John the Baptists explanation of Christ & His Bride [John 3:29]) it seems as though we or "the church" or the "chosen" are not the Bride, but rather guests who are brought into a celebration of Christ and His Bride(the city New Jerusalem)?
 
Am i missing a piece to the puzzle? Can anyone offer any insight into the matter? Does Ray cover this in his rapture paper (I have read portions of this paper over time but do not recall)? I apologize if this information is already posted somewhere, I will continue to look and search the scriptures while I wait a reply...
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Daniel

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 08:39:41 PM »

I hope this helps. If someone else does not cover it I have some more on this, give me a bit. He carried Him away to a Mountain that mountain is named and shown

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Paul wanted to present them as a chaste virgin to Christ


Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Daniel
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Daniel

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 11:21:31 PM »

This is not an easy share

John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.


2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a CHASTE VIRGIN TO CHRIST.[/u]  (until Christ be formed IN them)


Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS of God.[/u]


Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy SONS marry thee: and as the Bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

(Keeping in mind)

Ephes 2:6 made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus


Rev 21:10 And he "carried me away" in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that GREAT CITY.... Matt 5:14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. the HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING out of heaven FROM GOD

Heb 12:22.. Ye are come unto Mount Sion[/b], and unto THE CITY of the living God the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels. Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and TO GOD the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT[/u]


1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom AMONG THEM THAT ARE PERFECT: yet NOT the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought (The Wisdom that DESCENDETH FROM ABOVE and manifests itself among certain)

Each place needs explaining

Phil 3:12 NOT AS THOUGH I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul said he could speak with those who he said were perfect but did not say he was?

Job says,

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: IF I SAY, I AM PERFECT, it shall also PROVE ME PERVERSE.[/u]

YET...

Job 1:8  the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, A PERFECT and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Written of Job

Ezek 14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.


Theres tons to see because both points can be drawn and both sides of one coin come together which makes it hard to show one thing without showing the other as you can anticipate the question coming in from the left or right of something. Keep that in mind.


The next verse after the showing of the Lambs wife, can you see Christ in us our hope of GLORY? Here she HAS IT.


Rev 21:11 HAVING "the glory of God": and HER LIGHT was like unto a STONE most PRECIOUS, "even like" A JASPER STONE, CLEAR as crystal[/u]

Christ IS the "precious stone" (named the Jasper stone). Her light being like was like unto Him who is that stone, Christ in her her hope of Glory shows her "having" the glory of God her. These are signified after the spiritual truths they represent. She is wife because the two are one here.


Rev 21:19 The FIRST foundation was JASPER 1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay "than that is laid" which is Jesus Christ  Check out Rev 4:3 He that sat on the throne had the same appearance of "Jasper"... The second being Sapphire the body of heaven in HIS CLEARNESS. Much more on this.


Again, its the meditation on these along with many other things signified that speak always of Him in their representations. There is only ONE who is ascended thats Christ, as there is only ONE (Paul said) wins the prize. This too scriptures speak of

Psalm 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom "coming out" of his chamber[/b], and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.[/u]

Mark the "perfect man" not missing the mark of the high calling in Christ, attaining unto the "perfect man"... the ONE who wins the prize.



Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write UPON HIM the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.[/u]  

Overcometh and overcome by faith


Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride[/u] say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life FREELY.

That which is from above IS FREE[/u]


This to me is difficult to get across as I see it. We are seated in heavenly places, things "signify spiritual truths" which manifest themselves. For example the "wisdom" which is from above verses that which descendeth not from above. One is terrestial the other celestrial, earthly or heavenly scriptures show how they manifest themselves after fruits. The names are written "in heaven" but they are also written "upon them" who overcome. These are already come to Mount Sion, its not a mountain that can be touched or seen as scriptures show. Its where the spirits of just men are made perfect, perfected in love. These are signified in the book of revelation. Her hope of glory is Christ in her, in the picture she has that very thing. Her light is then likened unto a "precious stone". Peter speaks of this precious stone. The stone is signified by Jasper thats the name of the stone used to compared other spiritual truths elsewhere with. Its the first in foundation, as no other foundation can be laid other then that which is already laid and is Jesus Christ. These go much further into Sapphire and the allegory of His clearness. As Paul spoke of seeing through glass darkly and then face to face and "in this world". The book goes from the presenting of one as a chaste virgin to Christ to the joining of the two and its manifestation signified through symbols.

Others may see differently, just sharing pieces

Daniel
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Steve Crook

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2006, 12:41:37 AM »

Don't forget:


Gal 4:26-27
(26)  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(27)  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not; for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath a husband.

and this is a good one too:

Isa 60:14
(14)  The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

later
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ertsky

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 01:17:09 AM »

as i understand it josh the new jerusalem is spiritual code for the elect, the few chosen and faithful, who go on to completion, endure to the end.

these ones

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

f
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Daniel

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 01:17:18 AM »

Amen Steve

Zion is where "The Stone" is laid

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Daniel
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rocky

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2006, 01:32:31 AM »

Not fully comprehending this thread, but never saw this before in this light.  

Christ in you, the husband in the woman, spiritual intercourse.
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josh

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Thank You.
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 02:59:37 AM »

Thank you all for the feedback, perhaps we can continue this conversation... I have read over this once, but would like to do so again in the morning when I am thinking abit more clearly... I still have alot of questions.
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josh

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2006, 01:51:59 PM »

Quote from: ertsky
as i understand it josh the new jerusalem is spiritual code for the elect, the few chosen and faithful, who go on to completion, endure to the end.

these ones

Rev 14:4  These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

f


I am beginning to understand these things more clearly, I will continue to study.... when rev. 14:4 mentions these men or the elect are virgins, "not defiled by women".... does this also spiritually represent something else or is it literal? is there any other place in scripture that gives this description?
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ertsky

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2006, 02:26:35 PM »

Quote
rev. 14:4 mentions these men or the elect are virgins, "not defiled by women".... does this also spiritually represent something else or is it literal?


definitely spiritual not literal josh

they are not defiled by the false doctrines of the great whore and her harlot daughters for they have

Rev 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Quote
is there any other place in scripture that gives this description?


well it's all through genesis to revelation really josh

heres an example

Jdg 3:5  And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites:
Jdg 3:6  And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons, and served their gods.
Jdg 3:7  And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgat the LORD their God, and served Baalim and the groves.

that would be a clear warning in spiritual type of the sort of catastrophe that happens when God's people dont heed the warning to come out of her and be seperate. ie. we should have no trade in the lies of babylon.

f

PS: i just read this one, another radical example

1Ki 16:30  And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the LORD above all that were before him.
1Ki 16:31  And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.
1Ki 16:32  And he reared up an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he had built in Samaria.
1Ki 16:33  And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.

and i'm reminded of this verse, some good news

Rom 7:4  Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

AMAZING! He's got us all covered

bring on the dawn

Rom 13:12  The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

f
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lilitalienboi16

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Is it our wedding or are we guest's of the groom?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2006, 03:51:53 PM »

Wow amazing thread! Lots of good stuff here.

Danial you have quiet an eye and ear for these things of the spirit. God bless! I hope i can get that much insight some day. I am still trying to understand revalations but this definately brings many things to light.

God bless all!

Alex

P.S. Keep the good stuff coming :)
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josh

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Thanks again.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2006, 06:01:24 PM »

hey guys, thanks for all your help in bringing the matter to the light, I am definitely seeing the scriptures in a new light as of recently and am filled with many questions.

If anyone else has anything else to add, please do.

Josh
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