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Author Topic: Christmas Light  (Read 3817 times)

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  • Guest
Christmas Light
« on: December 25, 2008, 10:18:21 AM »

In respnse to Martincineros post under Christmas Story realities, I see too many similarities in it and the christmas story the world plays out every year. They only see the carnal aspects of it. 

Jesus was not even born in December, it was most likely in October. The story was moved to fit into mans traditions, the winter soltice holidays and now has so many trappings that the message is hidden.

The story of Mary and Joseph is a recounting, and it is not much different than what has happened to other humans on some level. How many men have married and raised children that they did not father?    

Pregnancy is not a disease, it is a physical state....., women have worked and traveled far greater distances. They have crossed this country during its development and they have had babies in some of the worst possible spots since the very beginnig of time.

Ray has most clearly pointed out ....The Bible is a parable.....His word is spiritual

This is some key lines in most christmas pagents.....

Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Here is where I agree with the post....How many men will come to the reality and know this...will live their lives  like Christ did..with total and committed fellowship.  Few are chosen.

Luk 2:14  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
here is a better translation
Luk 2:14 CLV) Glory to God among the Highest! And on earth peace, Among men, delight!"

This was the closest to the original Greek I really like it because it sounds like a 'Ta dah' moment for God....Look world is My begotten Son.

When I read Mary's response to the angel I can see that this magnificat will be sung by each of the elect......since God 's spirit lives in the elect and during their life they were conformed to the image of Christ. The elect too are born again of spirit.

When you first read Rays site and began absorbing the truth .....did your heart not sing ?...when you recieved the "earnest" the "embryo" within.

(Luk 1:46 REV) And Mary said-My soul doth magnify the Lord,   (It is all God's doing)

(Luk 1:47 ) And my spirit hath exulted upon God my saviour; (He is the One who dragged us out and delivered us)

(Luk 1:48 ) Because he hath looked upon the humbling of his handmaid; for lo! from the present time, all the generations, will pronounce me happy.
(the few will serve the many and they will be be amazed that God has chosen such a motley group of people to exalt)

(Luk 1:49 ) Because he that is mighty hath done for me great things, and, holy, is his name;
(God'ds plan is so much bigger that Babylonean church ever imagined)

(Luk 1:50 ) And his mercy is unto generations and generations, to them who revere him;They too will be brought back to the shepards fold

(Luk 1:51 ) He hath wrought strength with his arm, He hath scattered men arrogant in the intention of their heart;
(Ecc 1:14) I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

(Luk 1:52 ) He hath deposed potentates from thrones, and uplifted the lowly;
(Isa 57:15)_For thus says Yahweh, high and lifted up, who tabernacles the future, and holy is His name:"In the high and holy place am I tabernacling, and with the crushed and lowly spirit, to preserve alive the spirit of the lowly, and to preserve alive the heart of the crushed."

(Luk 1:53 ) The hungry, hath he filled with good things, and, the wealthy, hath he sent empty away;
(Psa 107:9 )For He satisfied the thirst of the unappeased soul, And the famished soul He filled with good."

(Luk 1:54 ) He hath laid hold of Israel his servant, to be mindful of mercies:
(Isa 49:3) And said to me My Servant, thou art,-Israel, in whom I will get myself glory

(Luk 1:55  According as he spake unto our fathers,-To Abraham, and to his seed,-Unto times age-abiding.
(Psa 112:2) Mighty in the earth, shall be his seed, The generation of the upright, shall be blessed;
(Gen 12:1) And Yahweh said unto Abram: Come thou on thy way, Out of thy land and out of the place of thy birth and out of the house of thy father,-Unto the land that I will show thee;

Now look at who God brought to investigate the birthing shows us that Daniel's loyalty to God and God honored that and daniel left his mark and his belief was passed down to that generations seers in the East. They believed and searched it out

(Mat 2:1 KJVR) Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
(Mat 2:2 KJVR) Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
(Pro 25:2) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.
(Dan 12:3) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever.

And isn't it interesting that the only ones actually directly told by the host of angels about the coming of the Messaiah (besides Mary and Joesph) were people from the lowest in that society...the is obvious that no one listened to them when they told the world at that time also. No one will listen to us here on earth right now either

(Luk 2:8 KJVR) And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
(Luk 2:9 KJVR) And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
(Luk 2:10 KJVR) And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
(Luk 2:11 KJVR) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
(Luk 2:12 KJVR) And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

(Luk 2:13 KJVR) And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
(Luk 2:14 KJVR) Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
(Luk 2:15 KJVR) And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
(Luk 2:16 KJVR) And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

Don't you just love that...the Bread of Life...served at the very beginning to us a food trough.

(Luk 2:17 KJVR) And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
(Luk 2:18 KJVR) And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
(Luk 2:19 KJVR) But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. is not that what we are doing...pondering because there are so few to share these glorious things with
(Luk 2:20 KJVR) And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

The overcomers in the first ressurection will be priests (shepards) and kings(rulers) and they will

G4165 rule ποιμαίνω poimainō poy-mah'ee-no From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
G936 reign   βασιλεύω basileuōbas-il-yoo'-o From G935; to rule (literally or figuratively): - king, reign.

(Mat 1:1 KJVR) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(Mat 1:17 KJVR) So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. This talks about 42 generations but are there 42? Ray tell us that we have to pay attention to the words lets count them

1Abraham 2Isaac 3Jacob 4Judah and his brethren;he begat 5Phares 6Esrom begat 7Aram;  begat 8Aminadab; begat 9Naasson; begat 10Salmon begat 11Boaz of Rahab; begat 12Obed of Ruth begat 13Jesse begat 14 David the king; begat 15Solomon of her that had been the wife of Uriah begat 16Roboam; begat 17Abia; begat 18Asa; begat 19Jehoshaphat begat 20Joram; begat 21Ozias begat 22Joatham begat 23 Achaz; begat 24Ezekias; begat 25Manasses; begat 26 Amon begat 27 Josiah begat 28Jechoniah and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechoniah begat 29Shealtiel; begat 30Zorobabel begat 31Abiud begat 32Eliakim; begat 33Azor begat 34Sadoc; begat 35Achim; begat 36Eliud begat 37Eleazar begat 38Matthan begat 39Jacob; begat 40Joseph the husband of Mary, supposed father of 41 Jesus

Mathew says there were 42 generations. When Jesus came into the world it signified a new epoch in the plan of God

"By the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established."
"No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

The Sons of God are all numbered! . "He telleth the number of the stars; He calleth them all by their names." (Psalm 147:4) the stars that God is interested in enough to name and number are the stars referred to in Daniel 12:3 and Rev. 1:20. The Sons of God that shall turn many to righteousness, and shall be found in His right hand at His coming!

The 42nd generation are the overcomer of Rev 21:7. It is that company of people spoken of by Isa. 8:18 and Heb. 2:13 as "the children God hath given me." It is those referred to in Rom. 8:29 as being conformed to His image. This is the generation of Jesus Christ, an elect company, an "ecclesia"called out of all ages and all generations, those who are the true seed of Abraham, who are "joint heirs with Christ," who rule and reign with Him

The 53rd chapter of Isaiah is a precious messianic prophecy referring to our lovely Savior some 700 years before His birth.

"He was taken from prison and from judgment: and WHO SHALL DECLARE HIS GENERATION? for He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was He stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him, He hath put Him to grief, when thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin, HE SHALL SEE HIS SEED, HE SHALL PROLONG HIS DAYS, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand." accounted to the Lord "for a generation.

Psalm 22:30-31. This is a messianic Psalm, and it speaks of Christ .
''A seed shall serve Him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for A GENERATION. They shall come, and shall DECLARE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS unto a people that shall be born, that He hath done this."

The Apostle Peter saw it, and writes in I Peter 2:9 . . . "BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light "whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the
firstborn among MANY BRETHREN." (Rom. 8:29)

Isa. 43:5-7 .
"Fear not, for I am with thee: I will bring THY SEED from the east, and gather thee from the west; I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; BRING MY SONS FROM FAR, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even everyone that is called BY MY NAME: for I HAVE CREATED HIMFOR MY GLORY' I have formed him, yea, I have made him."

Psalm 22:22 "I will declare thy name UNTO MY BRETHREN: IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION will I praise thee."

New Testament shows the Holy Ghost quoting from these scriptures in Hebrews 2:12, showing them to be the words of our Lord prophetically spoken in the Psalms: "Saying, I will declare thy name UNTO MY BRETHREN, in the MIDST OF THE CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee."

Romans 8:29 states that Jesus is the "Firstborn among many brethren.
Those "brethren" are also known as "Sons of God," "the elect," "the overcomers," "the manchild,"

HE THAT OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be HIS GOD, and HE SHALL BE MY SON."

So should we ignore the celebration of Christmas......I think not ............


We should be shouting our heads off

 Glory to God among the Highest! And on earth peace,   Among all of you .... delight!"

Beloved             :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
                          :D :D :D :D :D :D
                              :D :D :D :D
                                :D :D :D
                                  :D :D
« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 11:00:21 AM by Beloved »


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2008, 11:51:22 AM »

Wow! Beloved, I feel like Ebenezer Scrooge when he woke up on Christmas morning after being visited by the three spirits!! I feel light and refreshed and very blessed to be alive and a child of the Living God!
Thank you for that beautiful reminder!
You are a blessing to us!
Love you! :-*
Kathy :D


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 12:34:57 AM »

Amen Beloved,  It is truly the Good News! I just hope everyone shouts the Truth of the Good News every day of the year.

In His Love,


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 03:04:46 PM »

Amen Beloved.  This has really helped me w/ my question on the other thread when I asked about the Christmas story.  Now, it is making more sense to me!!


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2008, 08:00:20 PM »

Thanks Beloved.

BTW, secular (compelling in that they have no religious axe to grind) scientists and astronomers using the latest computer modelling and mapping technology to map star patterns, planetary movements and alignments, along with some ancient texts dating back to the time of Christs Birth taken from all the major civilizations that fall along the same latitude is Judea, have concluded that in all probability Jesus Christ was born on December 25th, 6BC. 


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2008, 09:03:36 PM »

scientists and astronomers using the latest computer modelling and mapping technology to map star patterns, planetary movements and alignments, along with some ancient texts dating back to the time of Christs Birth taken from all the major civilizations that fall along the same latitude is Judea, have concluded that in all probability Jesus Christ was born on December 25th, 6BC.  

Well none of the above studies the scriptures.   ;D

Okay here is a raw exerpt from one of my is about the physical

The seasons and the lunar period set by G-d in Genesis have not changed so there is still a relative consistency with G-d’s plan of time. All of the changes in the calendar were done so man would find it impossible when reading the scriptures to appreciate the time elements in the scriptures.  That is why I believe that Yeshua say “these are the signs” and states “that only the father knows the exact times”.

The religious calendar was still in use at the time of the New Testament. In Luke 1:5 when he tells us that Zechariah was of the priestly division of Abijah, he has given us the first but small time clue.

In 1Chronicles 24:10, we learn that this meant that Zechariah’s family had their appointed ministry in the eighth position. There were 24 divisions. This means that they could have served one month shifts every other year, two week shifts once each year, or one week intervals twice a year.

According to Dead Sea scrolls*  the two week rotation was being used in New Testament times. To be away from the family for a month would have posed a hardship on most families at the time. The two-week interval would be most efficient way of working the schedule in an agricultural society.. There is no mention in either the New or Old Testament books of the Bible of anyone ever repeating their cycle as would be required in the one week shift.   

If Nissan one is the start of the calendar, then Zechariah would have temple duty after the seventh family’s two week tour was completed and this would have occurred approximately from the 3rd of Tammuz through the 16th.   He would not have had sex until after his tenure was completed.

No other biblical conception was the father afflicted, so I really believe that because he lost his speech, he most likely he quickly obeyed the word of G-d quickly upon getting home.  John the Baptist his son could have been conceived on the 17th of Tammuz. Since his message would be repent and prepare for the Lord, this is fitting for it had become a day of national fasting for the people of Israel.*

Since G-d determined the gestational length of man to be approximately 280 days then John the Baptist’s “EDC” (Expected date of confinement) would have fallen approximately around the time from the 10th of Nissan through the 14th.  Since John’s life symbolized Elija’s life and Gabriel links the birth of John to Elijah in his conversation in the Temple with s Zechariah, it would be fitting by G-ds standard for John the Baptist who was to prepare the way for the Lord,  to come into this world at the time when many Jews are setting a table place for Elijah. If John were born on Passover, he would be circumcised on the eight day of unleavened bread. Two festivals have an eight-day holy period associated with them: Passover and the feast of Tabernacles. Even John’s circumcision would have been consecrated.

If John were conceived in the middle of Tammuz, then he would be six months along in his gestation in the middle of the month of Tabeth.  According to Luke1: 24,  Elizabeth stayed in seclusion for the first five months. I found that seclusion in the early part of her pregnancy very interesting. I wanted to know how did Zechariah communicate what happened with the angel to his wife. If he wrote it, how did she read it since women were not educated during those times? I can only imagine him doing gestures and her trying to quess the answer like in the game of Charades.

If she were advanced in years and menopausal, then there would be no cessation of periods to raise her suspicions. Sure there would be nausea and breast tenderness but it would take till she felt fetal movement to know for sure. All the other symptoms of pregnancy can occur with other illnesses except for the unique distinguished feeling of a fetal kick and fetal movement. So I was naturally curious and wondered why did she stay in seclusion before she would even know she was pregnant or even showing.

According to Luke 1:26, the angel Gabriel visited Mary during Elizabeth’s six month of pregnancy and he tells Mary exactly how far along her cousin is her pregnancy.     

Six months occurs between the 24 to the 26th week of modern obstetric calculation. Setting the time of Yeshua’s conception at time during Elizabeth’s pregnancy six month stage would mean that Yeshua was conceived sometime in the Month Tabeth.  I believe the day was around or actually on the Festival lights or the Feast of Dedication. This is around the time of Channuka.

Jesus in John 10:22 at the Feast of Dedication states that “I and the father are one” At His human conception this was surely true. To those who wanted to stone him for saying this,  it was an  “inconceivable” statement (excuse the pun) for them to understand.

Since Yeshua was sent to earth as man to be the Light of the World this would have been fitting time for conception. It also adds more significance to the particular miracle of the temple light during the time of the Maccabbes and show that G-d instituted it in order to later serve as a marker for this more notable future event.
If Yeshua were conceived in Tabeth, then He would then have to be born in the same 280-day period that all humans do and that would occur in the month of Tischi. It is highly conceivable and fitting that the time was Tischi 15 or the Feast of Tabernacles.

Why would G-d have Zechariah 14:16-17 prophecy that this particular Holy Festival would be celebrated by all people and for all times.  There is not much significance placed on the Festival in the Tenach, when you compare all that is said about Passover and Yom Kippur in scriptures.

In John 1:14, he tells us that “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. The word dwelt can also mean “tabernacled”.  Micah 5:2 prophesies that out of Bethlehem, Ephratha will come one who will be a ruler over Israel and that Israel will be abandoned until the time when she is in labor gives birth.”   That is how Jerusalem was before the Maccabean revolt and the rededication of the temple.

If one looks at the sequence of events that were occurring the New Testimate tells us that after the announcement of Gabriel that Mary then makes a trip from Nazareth to some unknown town in the hills of Judea to visit her cousin Elizabeth. At this time an interesting event is noted in the chronicles of Luke, Elizabeth’s product of conception leaps for joy and acknowledges Mary’s product of conception

I used the term products of conception in the above sentence because this is one of the especially nice euphemisms that the medical profession has chosen to describe the contents of a woman’s uterus during her pregnancy.  From a gynecological position this would seem to be evidence from G-d that a human being is present from the time of conception and would seem to abrogate the Supreme Court’s present position that the lack of viability make the fetus a non entity.

It is also mentioned in John 1:6 that “a man was sent from G-d, his name was John.  He came as a witness to testify concerning the light”. I think that the “leap of joy” mentioned above is a the most perfect and the most simplistic and sweetest description of witnessing that you will find anywhere in the scriptures. A mother and her baby are the first to testify to the arrival of Yeshua.  A mother and their parents’(Elizabeth and Zechariah) seed testify of a mother (Mary) and “her” Seed (Yeshua) as revealed way back in Genesis.

She also fulfills the prophesy made by Isaiah regarding “That the Lord Himself would give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and give birth to a son and He will be called Emmanuel”  The name Emmanuel means “G-d is with us”, which is pretty good description of what G-d literally and actually did and it was not at all what any of the Rabbi would have believed could happen.

If the Jewish rabbi really believe that the word is not “virgin” but “young girl”, then what kind of sign would that have been to have a young girl give birth?  Since the law required all young women to be virgins at the time of marriage. Regardless it must have seemed puzzling to the rabbi to imagine since any unmarried girl would have been stoned under the Law if she were found in such a condition. 

I am still amazed to see how well Mary’s husband Joseph took all this. Here is a man who really was able to submit to G-d’s will and do his job wilth very little fanfare or recompense. Joseph does his job as an earthly father and does it all in the background.

 We also see that G-d provided for many small details. We are told in Luke 1:56 that Mary stayed with Elizabeth for the last three months. I really believe that G-d used this time to familiarize and calm the fears of birthing for Mary. I think Mary attended Elizabeth’s birth and she was comforted with this knowledge and experience.

Mary would have been about 12 weeks pregnant at this time. I imagine that Joseph would be moving forward on their formal wedding arrangements because it would only be a matter of time before her pregnancy would be obvious to everyone. There is no description of Mary and Joseph having any family help at the time of the birth so this could have been a very scary event for the couple.

Closer to the time of birth, the month of Tischi, like Nissan has several very important feasts that I am sure would have been observed to the utmost by expectant parents knowing that they were bearing the son of G-d. They would probably celebrated the Feast of Trumpets on the 1st of Tischi and might have even gone to Jerusalem for the feast of “Day of Atonement “ or Yom Kippur on the 10th of Tischi in order to prepare themselves and repent before for the upcoming birth.

I believed that they arrived in Bethlehem for the Festival of Tabernacles. No doubt there were crowds in for this holiday as well as for the census. Mary and Joseph may have literally given birth in a temporary structure and had truly celebrated the Festival of “Booths” in a real way.  The word “cave” or “stable” is never used in any of the Gospels. The term manger is used in connection with the Feast of Tabernacles as the place where food was kept within the “Booth".

This festival also has an eight-day celebration attached to it. So Yeshua’s circumcision would also have occurred on a Holy day and a day of sacred assembly. The day Yeshua was identified as being Jewish.

On the 40th day after the birth according to Luke2:22 , the baby and mother went to the temple for purification and because they were poor, two doves were offered for Yeshua’s dedication. Much later in Yeshua’s infancy when they needed money for their escape to Egypt, the gold, frankincense and myrrh were provided by G-d to fund this travel venture. If these items were given to them at the time around the birth then Mary Joseph would have paid with a lamb and not two doves.

Two official witnesses are described in Luke that occurred at the time of purification and dedication of the firstborn. . Simeon, the priest is described as being righteous and devout. This was at the time that  ‘Simeon the Just’ actually lived and was the ranking High Priest of the time. The aarean priests were ousted by the Romans and the duties given to Sadducee.

It is mentioned in Luke that Simeon was promised by G-d that he would live to see the Messiah. Even though it does not mention that he was the high priest, it shows that he recognized the baby as the Messiah and would therefore have been required to have reported it to the high priest in the temple.  If he were the "tue" high priest himself it would not be required to report it.

It is strange that this high priest would say in Luke 2:31-32  “you have prepared in the sight of all people a light for revelation to the Gentiles and the glory to your people Israel” because this statement can be interpreted from both a gentile and a Jewish perspective both then and now. Israel did not appreciate the fact that it all depended on how they themselves reacted to G-d.

Now here is a strange fact, the Jewish Talmud also has a strange entry regarding this particular high priest. It was written that the “servant light “ or “shamosh” of the menorah would no longer burn after Simeon the Just’s death (Yoma 43:3). Was it because the real light was already burning on earth? John speaks of Yeshua as the servants light in Revelation 21:23

The first official Jewish witness was a Levite and the second witness a prophetess named Anna who was from the tribe of Asher. She gave thanks and witnessed to everyone and anyone who would listen. An old has been priest and an old widow...perfect witnesses for God.   

Yeshua did not enter this world without the world witnessing the event. Before His birth He had the prophets speak of Him. He had is parents Mary and Joseph at time of the announcement. He had Elizabeth and John in-utero before He was born.  At His birth He had His parents Mary and Joseph, He had the heavenly witnesses, the angels. After His birth, He several unofficial witnesses the shepherds and then the two official temple witnesses. During his infancy he also had gentile witnesses, the Magi.  So although He was born in poverty and obscurity G-d made sure that event was quiet but properly witnessed.

God also carefully arranged for the lineage of Yeshua. Since the temple is destroyed no one now can trace his or her roots back to King David. All through the Tenach the people of Israel have been sifted.

The lineage of Matthew is of Joseph and proves that he is from the house of David. It is Mary’s lineage that is most important because not only does she have the correct lineage but she also fulfills the Law for women to legally pass on the inheritance.

Mary’s line shows Nathan and not Solomon as the offspring that could legally inherit the throne. Out of Solomon’s line came Jehoiachin and he and his lineage was cursed and his offspring would not be entitled to the throne (Jer22: 24).
Only later in Haggai was the lineage of David re-installed when God gave the “signet ring” back to Zerubbabel an assured him that the Messiah would still come from the house of David. Zerubbabel by the way is in the bloodlines of both Mary (Luke3:27) and Joseph (Matt 1:12).  Each line comes through different sons of Zerubbabel

Mary’s family tree, in addition also diverts form Solomon to Nathan and therefore retains this entitlement twofold both legal right and from the legal seed as in the Gen 49:10  promise “that the scepter shall not be taken away nor leader from his thigh until He shall come”.  She also fulfills the Mosaic Law regarding inheritance by a woman. First a woman had to have no brothers and second she had to marry within the same family clan.

There is no mention of Mary having any living brothers or a father. It could have even been one of the reason why Joseph ‘being a righteous man’ did not even want to divorce her quietly even ‘before’ the angel of the Lord appeared in his dream. . She may have not had anywhere to go where a man in such a patriarchal society could have protected her.  After his dream, she married a man from the same family line, so according to the very last chapter in Numbers (Nu 36:1-13) where the inheritance by women is outlined, Mary met the criteria of legal inheritance. 

In addition in Zecharaih 12:12, he specifically mentions the names of certain clans, David, Nathan, Levi and Shemei. These are singled out as ones who will particularly weep “when they look upon the one they have pierced “and all of these names are in Mary’s bloodline.  In addition, in Luke2:35,  Simeon the Just also tells the mother child relationship would be like that a sword would “pierce” her own soul and seems to me also to refer back to the above cited in Zechariah12.

It is in Mary’s bloodline outlined in Luke 3:37 that goes back to “Adam who was the Son of God.” This also forms a complete circle and shows how Yeshua was as described in Rev. 22:16 both “the root and the offspring of David”.

Using the wheel and trying various scenarios, with so many fact fixing the various points of time it seems that everything works and fits with these dates. There also seems to be adequate confirmation in the scriptures themselves. It would also seem more plausible that an Almighty G-d would be so perfect in his plan and its implementation.

He knew the dates in Exodus and He wrote about many of the things that would occur. He also knew that Satan would do his best to destroy and divert G-d’s plan. Though cryptic, everything is there if one really studies the scriptures. Without the New Testament  the state Israel is missing some of clues.

Satan has used the world and the church also to distort the facts but they are written and can be found. The early church changed the day of Sabbath and changed the holy days in order to placate the non-believing masses. They tried to manipulate the true story to give credence to their own belief system. They did all this for power. The more confused the masses are the easier they are to sway. However the truth shall prevail. In the final run, G-d’s time clock is still running and the world does not realize that the alarm is about to go off.

If you pick up any standard Obstetric book and look under labor and delivery, the following steps are described in the actual process of human birth. The human head has a particular shape and so does the mother pelvis.  In order for the human head to tranvserse this passage way, the passanger also has to perform certain maneuvers in order to reduce its body mass to the smallest diameter in order to fit.

The first thing it must do is flex its head. This entails the chin bending forward to touch the neck area. The second is to rotate the head so the widest angle of the mother aligns with the widest area of the fetal head. The next is to descend and move down into the pelvis and the last move is to crown and elevate the head and be born and take our first breath and feel the full force of the earths gravity.

Being “born again” you see also entails these steps. The person must first repent and bow his head. In doing so he recognizes his sins so he can present them to Yeshua. The next step is to turn to Jeshua and make the changes necessary to remain in a proper relationship to G-d. The third is descent and the baptism and submersion into the death of Yeshua and realize that his blood was shed to atone for our sins. The last step is to emerge take our first breath of the Ruach Kodesh  (Holy Spirit) and be ready to live your eternal life in and for the Messiah and the Glory of the Father.

This all may seem silly but reading this again make me want to sing (I cannot hold a tune) \never the less

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
    ;D ;D ;D ;D
      ;D ;D ;D
        ;D ;D

Psa 150:1  Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
Psa 150:2  Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
Psa 150:3  Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Psa 150:4  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
Psa 150:5  Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
Psa 150:6  Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.



  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 09:53:51 PM »

Wow, that is Awesome Beloved!



  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 12:25:07 AM »

Ok Beloved,

Now it is out in the open, that is a great work of reporting. :o Have you defended this before or
is it still being proofed. ???

george. ;D


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 12:55:43 AM »

Very interesting stuff Beloved.

As far as "secular ... scientists and astronomers using the latest computer modelling and mapping ... have concluded that in all probability Jesus Christ was born on December 25th, 6BC." goes, it seems to me to be an amazing coincidence that the secularists would come to this date when supposedly Constantine picked the date to coincide with the Son God's birthday. Since I don't believe in coincidences, I'll bet that they set out to come to that conclusion....

Blessings, Lin


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 01:24:25 AM »

Lin  It is all perspective, the essence of a human life starts at conception...birth is the start existence in the world. Jesus was conceived in the physical at this time of the year. 

Spiritually we have received the seed/essence and we are waiting for our spiriutal birth into His Kingdom. Like Rays says it is a process. It is also no coincidence that the church thinks are born again now...they are not willing to die to self...but always ready for signs and wonders and birth days.

Daniels magi saw the star rising ....perhaps there were physical cosmic events, they came because they believed what Daniel taught them. I just do not put my faith in what science says since they do not understand the ways of God.

George  I wrote it about 7 years ago, I had to find a anglisized version in My Documents. I was intrigued by the abundant metaphors used in the scriptures.  most of it deals with the letter, I see more spiritual things now a days.

Last night it just dawned on me that Matthews geneology is strange in that it mentions 5 women...this was not done at the time...all these women were unique and in a way could be considered a little  "off colored" or even cast as harlots in their days. Mary was often accused by the Jewish religion of being an adulteress. Five is the number of grace so this too is fitting.  

The religious want a sign
Luk 1:18  And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man and my wife well stricken in years.
The obedient obey
(Luk 1:38 ALT)  And Mary said, "Look! The slave of the Lord! May it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

Eve took the brunt of the guilt though the ages, but Jesus let a women sit at His feet to learn and He appeared first to a women when he was Ressurrected. It is was in a garden and in a way a spiritual bethrothal. I see this as symbolic and spiritual

Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

1Pe 2:5  Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.




  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 07:26:11 AM »

Well, secular scientists that discovered the universe to be approx 16 billion years old don't study the scriptures either, but they are right.
The ancient Hebrew calenders have nothing to do with their discovery. Their discovery centers around the star in the nativity story.
The modern Roman calender was invented in the 6th century, with some glaring mistakes. The Catholic Monk given the task of creating this calender used the Bible and the traditional birthday of Christ as a guide to calculating the calender. The problems with it are that Augustus reigned with a different name for at least 4 years, and the year zero was omitted. The calender went from 1BC to 1AD with no year zero. These mistakes put Christs birthday between 4-6 years BC, rather than 1AD. We know from historic texts that Herod died in 4 BC.
What the scientists looked for was a significant astronomical event around that time. They found that Chinese, Indian and Babylonian (civilizations on that latitude) texts from that time reported an unusually bright star event appearing as though moving westward (towards Jerusalem) and then stopping for several days before disappearing. The texts all dated to between 6-4 BC. The Magi or wise men are thought by most historians to be Babylonian astrologers that looked to the stars for affirmation of prophetic texts from the Hebrew scriptures, and other texts that they studdied.
Traditional theories about the nativity star have usually centered around the appearance of a commet. The trouble with that theory is that the Babylonian astrologers always interpreted the appearance of a commet as foretelling death and destruction, not the birth of a King or Savior.
The computers that the scientists used can map the movement of stars and plannets and predict where they will appear in our skies with amazing accuracy, they can also tell where they would have been in the past, and they can pinpoint it down to the day.
None of the constellations that ancient astrologers observed had a significant enough event to justify far off civilizations writing about them. However there was one planetary event that did, and it occurred at exactly the time Christ is thought to have been born.
Very rarely, the planets Jupiter and Venus (the King and Mother planets according to astrologers) overlap or eclipse and when the Sun reflects off them they appear so bright as to almost make the night sky here on earth look like day. This only happens once every few thousand years, and no one alive today will witness it.
It did occur in 6 BC, and using the Roman calender, it started around September, and culminated in it stopping on a latitude trajectory that would have placed it right over the region of Bethlehem at its brightest, right around the end of December, December 25th 6 BC to be precise. 
Given the mistakes in the modern calendar, this date fits perfectly with the Biblical account. We know that not long after Christs birth, Joseph fled with Him and Mary to Egypt unitl the death of Herod in 4 BC.
 They also found evidence that this date was attributed to Christs birthday before Constantine.
I see no reason to doubt the technology used to track the stars and plannets, scientists are not stupid. It would seem an amazing coincidense to me that this event occured according to scientists, was written about by other civilizations, is accounted in the Bible, and yet could have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.
Maybe December the 25th is not such a pagan tradition afterall.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 07:31:26 AM by David »


  • Guest
Re: Christmas Light
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2008, 10:32:27 AM »

David I am not exactly arguing about the timing ir the event...I just see it as His conception and you see it as His birth  If He was conceived in Dec He was born in September. There is certainly enough leeway in the time. The event could have occurred but the real significance missed....

Bethlehem is close to Jersuslam. Now think about it Herod killed all the children under two to me that indicates that he did not know the exact birthdate, if he did then all he would had to do would be to look at the umbical cord. Even with the escape, the timing was perfect and protected the parents and their newborn.

If the Magi traveled it still would have taken them months to get there. So no one noticed this cosmic event there? I cannot imagine there was no astronomers in Judea then.

Also a conjuncture would not be seen exactly equally all over the world...slightly different angles of the planets orbits even on same latitude. Some circles even think it was the Shekanna Glory and not stars/planets. The shepards would have noticed this light too.

(Luk 2:8 ALT)  And shepherds were in the same region staying in the fields and watching over their flock [during the] watches of the night.
(Luk 2:9 ALT)  And look! An angel of the Lord stood over them, and [the] glory of the Lord shone around them, and they feared [with] a great fear.(Luk 2:10 ALT)  And the angel said to them, "Stop being afraid! For listen! I bring to you* the Gospel of great joy, which will be to all people.
(Luk 2:11 ALT)  "Because a Savior was born to you* today in the city of David, who is Christ [the] Lord!

I do not think the Universe was quiet....just that significance of the signs were not perceived by that generation.

« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:35:03 AM by Beloved »
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