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Author Topic: Leviathan and Behemoth  (Read 7642 times)

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aqrinc

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Leviathan and Behemoth
« on: December 30, 2008, 12:23:26 AM »


Ok work Time,

Reading in the books of Job and psalms; got me to searching for more on Behemoth and Leviathan,
anyone has more on these or know where Ray addressed either in audio or video? I did the search
on Google and in the Jewish Encyclopedia, very interesting reading. All the other attempts to
make light of the subject and discredit the Scriptures are also included. Dinosaurs and Sea Monsters
or not literal in any of the occurrences. Apparently Behemoth was made with Job? that would make
modern human a lot older or T Rex a lot younger or  ??? ??? :-\


Job 41:1:
Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down? 

Psalms 74:14:
Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Psalms 104:26:
There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. 

Isaiah 27:1:
In that day THE LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. 

Job 40:15-20

15-Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 

16-Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17-He moveth his tail like a cedar, the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18-His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

19-He is the chief of the ways of God; he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

20-Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

george. :o ??? :o
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Ninny

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2008, 11:00:41 AM »

That's interesting, George. I haven't looked it up, but from what version did you take the verses from Job? That does seem like it means the behemoth lived concurrently with Job. Well, maybe not T-Rex, I thought he was a meat eater! That says he "eateth grass as an ox" Well some of the other largest dinosaures were supposedly vegetarians. "food for thought"!! huh, George?  ;)
 :D Kathy :D
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aqrinc

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 03:58:51 PM »


Hi Kathy,

Here are a few other Bible translations of these verses, one calls it a (river horse - Noyes).
Lots of reading but now we can start to put Text and Context on History and Scripture in
still tiny but growing understanding. T Rex was supposed to be a meat eater but there were
many other Behemoths according to the Fossil Record and Science and Scripture.


Be careful with that food analogy as there are some interesting beliefs and expectations on that. ???

God's WORD to the Nations:
15-"Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you. It eats grass as cattle do. 16-Look at the strength in its back muscles, the power in its stomach muscles. 17-It makes its tail stiff like a cedar. The ligaments of its thighs are intertwined. 18-Its bones are bronze tubes. They are like iron bars. 19-Behemoth is the first of God's conquests. Its maker approaches it with his sword.

ESV
15-“Behold, Behemoth, which I made as I made you; he eats grass like an ox.

Jubilee 2000
15-Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox.

RNKJV
15-Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16-Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17-He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18-His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19-He is the chief of the ways of El: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

Emphasized Bible by Rotherhams
15-Behold, I pray thee, the Hippopotamus, which I made with thee, Grass—like the ox, he eateth; 16-Behold, I pray thee, his strength in his loins, and his force, in the muscles of his belly; 17-He bendeth down his tail like a cedar, the sinews of his thighs, are twisted together; 18-His bones, are barrels of bronze, his frame, is like hammered bars of iron: 19-He, is the beginning of the ways of GOD, Let his maker, present him his sword:

Revised Webster Version 1833
15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. behemoth: probably an extinct animal of some kind 16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the sinew of his belly. 17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his thighs are knit together. He...: or, He setteth up 18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach him.

george. :)
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aqrinc

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »


Hi Mark,

When i started this topic several times before; it was with purely physical curiousity and to
satisify my hunger to know why i have spent much time learning about these carnal things.
If we are looking in the physical that is a possibility but the words of Scripture are Spirit.

At the moment i am stuck between my head knowledge and historical research vs the
Spiritual implications of this subject. So; for now it is back to study, Pray for Enlightment
and wait Patiently until i get IT.

george. :)

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musicman

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 01:49:33 PM »

I looked up Behemoth in some newer dictionary the other day.  Know what it said?




An example would be Musicman's last date.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 01:50:36 PM by musicman »
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Craig

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 02:03:06 PM »

I looked up Behemoth in some newer dictionary the other day.  Know what it said?


An example would be Musicman's last date.


Are you sure that wasn't a very, very old dictionary? :D

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aqrinc

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 02:47:49 PM »

Thanks Mark,

Since my last post on this subject, i have reviewed and am currently researching Rays writings and other discussions on this forum. Also many other references including TALMUD and various other works done on this subject. There are physical types here, but also very much more Spiritual Type, i am still following this whenever lead to do so.

I totally missed this thread so thanks again for bringing it up. Hope to be able to expand on this soon, there is some very eye opening Scriptures that refer to Leviathan.


Psa 74: 12-18 (KJV)
12  For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
13  Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
14  Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
15  Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers.
16  The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.
17  Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.
18  Remember this, that the enemy hath reproached, O LORD, and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.


Psa 104: 25-26 (KJV)
25  So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
26  There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

Isa 27:1 (KJV)
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

H3882
לויתן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

(breakest)
H7533
רצץ
râtsats
raw-tsats'
A primitive root; to crack in pieces, literally or figuratively: - break, bruise, crush, discourage, oppress, struggle together.

george. :)

Ps. King Arthur and the Knights of The Round table, read the old not recent editions. (Physical & ??????)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 11:29:08 PM by aqr »
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musicman

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 10:47:23 PM »

I looked up Behemoth in some newer dictionary the other day.  Know what it said?


An example would be Musicman's last date.


Are you sure that wasn't a very, very old dictionary? :D



OOooohhh!!  Watch those jabs below the belt.
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Vangie

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 12:27:59 AM »

You know how sometimes the scriptures speak to you, where you are right now?  Okay, so I've been researching affordable vacation options, and the past few days have been looking into the Florida Keys.  Then this topic came up and I linked in my thoughts, hmmmm, manatee (a sea creature pretty common in the FL Keys), hmmmm, behemoth?  It's kind of like a physical shadow being brought to light--at least for me maybe, when I think of this animal's characteristics?  I'm not going really deep or anything here, and I'm not meaning to offer that I think this is a literal answer for the topic--I'm just comparing the figurative descriptions in the scriptures to the traits that can be attributed to this peaceful, meek, unobstrusive but yet mighty and amazing animal--but....I never would have even thought about this if the circumstances weren't as they were.  Does that make any sense??

I'd welcome other thoughts re: how things in "our" own here and now tie in with our spiritual learning.  It's so weird (in a great way) to me how sometimes what we discuss here on the forum and what I'm studying in the Bible just resonates and links with whatever life experiences I'm going thru, no matter how mundane they might seem on the surface.  So cool.

Thank you God for your servant Ray who is still teaching me to open my eyes and ears.  And thank you forum family.

Love in Christ,
Vangie

   
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Akira329

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 08:38:15 PM »

What are we trying to find out ???

Antaiwan
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Vangie

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 10:52:55 PM »

Good question! 

I was just pointing out how now I'm seeing a less threatening (i.e. not evil) message for what "Behemoth" might mean for my own understanding and discernment.  I had always looked at these terms that George references here, as scary, demonic, evil because I used to blindly see them from the perspective and fear of physical carnality. 

Now I see a more uplifting, positive spin.  It's all one.  The sovereignty of God always shines through.   
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cjwood

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2009, 01:11:31 AM »

I looked up Behemoth in some newer dictionary the other day.  Know what it said?




An example would be Musicman's last date.

and enter in the comic relief.

claudia
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musicman

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2009, 11:14:45 PM »

OK, now someone reveil what these two things represent.  I'm waiting. 
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Ninny

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2009, 11:23:21 PM »

Since you guys have turned this topic into a non-serious one I'd say ...The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind, the answer is blowin' in the wind...
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aqrinc

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2009, 11:43:51 PM »


If there is anyway to recover this thread from musicmans Girlfriend, i promise to include some Behemoth research for you. ;D

With a bit more research, i found nine verses Where Leviathan is written about in The OT Scriptures. Also went to Strongs to cross reference the strongs discription, now looking to learn some Hebrew and Aramiac to get the original meaning and context of the sentences in each case.

Anyone who knows, i would appreciate some suggestions on which interlinear is best or do i need to use several.


1. (GNB) Job 3:8  Tell the sorcerers to curse that day, those who know how to control Leviathan. 
H3882
לויתן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation

of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

2. (GNB)Job 41:1  Can you catch Leviathan with a fishhook or tie his tongue down with a rope?
H3882


3. (GNB)Job 41:9  Anyone who sees Leviathan loses courage and falls to the ground.


4. (GNB)Job 41:12  Let me tell you about Leviathan's legs and describe how great and strong he is.


5. (GW) Job 41:18  When Leviathan sneezes, it gives out a flash of light. Its eyes are like the first rays of the dawn.


6. (GW) Job 41:25  "The mighty are afraid when Leviathan rises. Broken down, they draw back.


7. (GNB) Psa 74:14  you crushed the heads of the monster Leviathan and fed his body to desert animals.

H3882
לויתן
livyâthân
liv-yaw-thawn'
From H3867; a wreathed animal, that is, a serpent (especially the crocodile or some other large sea monster); figuratively the constellation

of the dragon; also as a symbol of Babylon: - leviathan, mourning.

8. (GNB) Psa 104:26  The ships sail on it, and in it plays Leviathan, that sea monster which you made.
H3882
H3867
לוה
lâvâh
law-vaw'
A primitive root; properly to twine, that is, (by implication) to unite, to remain; also to borrow (as a form of obligation) or (causatively)

to lend: - abide with, borrow (-er), cleave, join (self), lend (-er).

9. (GNB) Isa 27:1  On that day the LORD will use his powerful and deadly sword to punish Leviathan, that wriggling, (twisting dragon), and to

kill the monster that lives in the sea.

H3882
H1281
בּרח    בּריח
bârîyach  bâriach
baw-ree'-akh, baw-ree'-akh
From H1272; a fugitive, that is, the serpent (as fleeing), and the constellation by that name: - crooked, noble, piercing.

george. :)


 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 11:46:47 PM by aqr »
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Roy Martin

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2009, 10:31:00 AM »

How tuff can it be compared to the beast?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 10:38:20 AM by Roy Martin »
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Marky Mark

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2009, 12:23:17 PM »

How tuff can it be compared to the beast?


My answer to that would be the beast and leviathan are running neck and neck  ;).
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Akira329

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2009, 02:12:25 PM »

So again what is the point of this thread??
Where is it going?
Are you leaving others to make assumptions on the usefulness of this knowledge?

Antaiwan
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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
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aqrinc

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2009, 03:30:28 PM »

So again what is the point of this thread??
Where is it going?
Are you leaving others to make assumptions on the usefulness of this knowledge?

Antaiwan

One rule i have learned from Ray is that when something is mentioned more than 2 times by GOD In Scripture; pay attention. When it is mentioned 7 times really pay close attention, at 9 times ok i guess ignore it and it will go away or just tear the 9 verses out of The Scriptures. And that is just one of the 2 beasts or words.

Sorry if this is causing too much thinking and forces us to either confront it, or say it is unimportant because we do not like where it is going. No one has to answer or comment on any particular thread unless they wish to actively participate in furthering their knowledge of GOD'S Word in that area.

These Scripture verses were important for 1. Job (6 times) 2. David (2 times) 3. Isaiah (1 time), to us Today, not important?.


Joh 6:63 (CLV)
The Spirit is that which is vivifying. The flesh is not benefiting anything. The declarations which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Honestly, i would rather be out having fun or reading about some scientific discovery (which is really just catching up to Scripture). I have been asked what is my agenda (NONE) GOD directs and i do not want to be swallowed by a fish so i comply.

Please do not keep searching for motives, rather search The Scriptures for The PEARLS buried in the field. GOD Says this Knowledge is useful, we do not decide if it is, either heed or ignore HIS WORD.

2Ti 3: 16-17 (GNB)
16  All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living,
17  so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed.

My motive if you insist; is that we all are as prepared as GOD'S Grace And Faith and Time will make us.

george :).

« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 03:31:52 PM by aqr »
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Roy Martin

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Re: Leviathan and Behemoth
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2009, 03:47:46 PM »

George, I was on my way to the grocery store just now and thinking about this topic and another topic at the same time when it came to me that knowing you from what I read from you, that I should reconsider your topic as it is not your character to take things lightly or just in passing.
 Just because one is not interested in another mans interest, doesn't mean its not important.
 I get home from the store and see your recent reply. Thanks for the reminder George.

Roy
 
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